The Scottish Government

580. SMC - Edinburgh

I can speak for myself thank you very much.

You have no authority or right to speak for Scotland. I want Independance.

And for your information according to the latest polls then the majority of Scots want Independance.

And if that was not true then why are the Unionists delaying the chance for Scots to vote?

They know that they will loose and so far I have not heard any arguments or reasons why we should stay in the United Kingdom.

And last but not least.

The Elections last year was not a vote on Independance. You vote for the party that you think that can best respresent you and help you the most.

You could be a Torie but want an Independant Scotland under a Conservative way of Governing like me.

But wait hold on.

You speak for Scotland apparently so I am guessing my words mean nothing.

And you wonder why the Union really has been declining when there are people with an attitude like yours going about.

The only way Scotland can be fairly respresent throughout the world is through Independance.

Seriosly, how many here have been asked on holiday where your from and you say Scotland and they say oh in England?

Its insulting that we are not given a fairer respresentation so the world knows that Britain does not mean England.

Re: 580. SMC - Edinburgh
Friday, May 2, 2008 08:22

“The decline of support for the Union is not occurring, what is occurring is a decline over the whole of the UK in support for the Labour party, which leads to increased support to the SNP, who unfortunately formed the main opposition party in Scotland since the Conservatives committed suicide over the poll tax”

If you are right SMC - & I hope you are, then the time for a Unionist revival could be now, following the Tories success in Wales & Northern England (not to mention London) in this week’s Local Elections.

I would love to see more Unionist postings on this board (sometimes I see to be the only one, & I’m painfully aware many on the board object to me purely ‘cause I’m not Scottish)

If the Tories are to build on this week’s successes then we need all supporters wherever they live in the UK, to speak up & let others know we DO exist.

BTW, I wouldn’t rely too much on the ‘unionist’ credentials of either Labour or the Liberals in Scotland.

I fear many of them only see Scottish votes as a way to success at Westminster. I don’t honestly see them as true defenders of the Union!

Re 580 SMC Edinburgh If this forum is being censored in order to produce a bias


Re 580 SMC Edinburgh. If this forum is being censored in order to produce a biased result then the whole exercise is rendered useless. Could the moderator not acknowledge unprinted comments with a short explanation for their rejection? We are after all not talking to politicians, we are talking to each other and providing we stay within the terms printed, are entitled to be heard. It's called democracy.

why can't scotland survive independence? why are scottish people not intelligent enough to run there own country? why are we the sick person of europe? why are we poor in contrast to every other nation our size and stature? why do we qeustion ourselves about our ability to be a proud independent scotland standing shoulder to shoulder with every other nation in the civilised world making our own decisions about our own problems.

580. SMC - Edinburgh

Fear not, all indications are that the Conservative and Unionists will soon be back in power at Westminster to reflect the values of the ~85% of the UK that is Boris Johnson's England.

You assume you know what Scotland wants, isn't this the attitude that put Thatcher's lovechild, New Labour, where it is today?

Our 'full and enthusisastic participation in the Union' has seen:
Mining wasted just for political spite with 200-300years of coal reserves abandoned underground, our steel workers' jobs sent to India, our shipyards' to Italy and Germany, likewise our railway engineering, car manufacuring, utility companies and fishing to mainland Europe, whisky, spirits and brewing to any Johnny come lately with a few bob to rub together.

With the bulk of Europe's renewable energy resources we can't even get a power cable laid to use the energy presently going to waste off our coasts.
When industry wanted to build carbon capture energy generating capacity at Peterhead, initialy enough to power two cities the size of Glasgow and recover the CO2 that might be produced by 400,000 cars every year, Whitehall put the skids under it and 20 years of oil production from BPs Miller field. All for the sake of UK red tape.

For me the kick in the teeth was the revelation in the recently uncovered McCrone Report that had Scotland been in possession of the true facts regarding her economic potential all of the above could have been very different.

Unionists aye tell us that was all in the past, but consider how this has materially affected our present:
£300bn in oil money from 1974 could have given UCS the investment they asked for to give our shipworkers the technology that subsequently went into French, German and Italian yards and has given them the thriving businesses they and their workers now benefit from.
Today by comparison we are shamed because we don't even have the money to save the old 'Carrick' left to rot on the beach in Irvine.
These shipyards and their feeder industries in turn could have supplied a ready market for Lanarkshire steel and efficient modern plant to manufacture it.

You can see I could go on, but the choice may soon be down to: does Scotland want to return to another decade or more of damaging Tory administration, or get out of the Treaty of Union before their Daily Telegraph readership's agenda kicks in again?

579. Mike King - Birmingham
I sympathise with your distaste for what I presume is Ethnic nationalism as expressed by the National Front/BNP.

However you may not be aware that there is more than one kind of nationalism eg:
The Ethnic nationalism we both profess to despise, the Civic/civil nationalism favoured in Scotland but, with thanks to Wikepedia, there are also;
Expansionist nationalism, Romantic nationalism, Cultural nationalism, Third World nationalism, Liberal nationalism, National conservatism, Anarchism, Religious nationalism, Pan-nationalism and last but perhaps not least Diaspora nationalism.

Again with thanks to Wikepedia:
Civic nationalism (or civil nationalism) is the form of nationalism in which the state derives political legitimacy from the active participation of its citizenry, from the degree to which it represents the "will of the people".

Civic nationalism lies within the traditions of rationalism and liberalism, but as a form of nationalism it is contrasted with ethnic nationalism.
Membership of the civic nation is considered voluntary. Civic-national ideals influenced the development of representative democracy in countries such as the United States and France.
IE it matters not where you have come from or what particular spiritual values you hold but rather that you have chosen to live in and make a positive contribution to your community.

I hope this clarification helps set your mind at rest.

Mike King - I wouldn't count on the Tories for anything north of the border Mike. Their name is still dirt up here in most places - rightly or wrongly. Labour are the great hope for unionism in Scotland. As a nationalist, that makes me feel much more confident about the future. Especially considering Wendy's recent antics!

582. Thomas Porter - Scotland, Aberdeen:
In fact I have every right to speak for Scotland, resident in the country, and on the electoral roll. While I have no authority to tell YOU what to think I can urge common sense.
You state that Unionists avoid a referendum on independence because they fear they would lose. This is not the case, they fear a referendum because the SNP would not ask a straight question of independence; yes or no? But instead they would ask so convoluted question of questionable intent which would be about independence, they would ask another about more powers to Holyrood, and another about whether the Scottish people were happy with the status quo. They would argue that were a majority (but below 50%) to vote for independence then they would have a mandate from the people to leave the union. But this would not be the case, a majority would have voted in favour of the Union, however we can all be certain that in their relentless rush to leave the Union would ignore this statement.
The idea of seceding on the basis of people abroad not understanding the location of your country is laughable, ignorance in others is not a basis for independence. And the idea of Scotland getting greater representation in the world as a sovereign state, than as a part of great Britain is also laughable. As part of a British nation of 60 million, we have far more of a voice globally than as part of a Scottish nation of 5 million. As part of NATO, and with a seat on the security council, we the Scottish people have a far greater influence on global events, and when it comes down to it are more likely to be listened to. Who cares about Luxemburg’s stance on world events, or the views of Norway. No one. You aim to trade global respect for recognition in which ever holiday resort you prefer. Britain does not mean England, maybe it is wiser to clarify that point than to begin a course of action which ensures that it does.

There is really only a very small amount of points to consider when looking at Scottish Independence.

1. Our "Union" with England is not an equal relationship, and the decision to become the "UK" was not made by the people of Scotland, 300 years ago literally a handful of Aristocrats made the decision for us! (If your curious to know more, then research it if you dont know the history of the union it will SHOCK you!)

2. Scotland, in its current state poverty, alcoholism, SERIOUS drug abuse is in no position to even understand what Independence would mean, we have been opressed by a foreign power for 300 years, we are the product of the British Empire, and we belong to London.

3. It is every nations right to determine their own identity, and direction and Scotland can easily become a prosperous, productive happy European nation.

Encourage everyone you know to VOTE! VOTE VOTE VOTE, thats the problem no one knows what the real political landscape in Scotland is...because half the population doesnt VOTE!

Its about choice and right to freedom, do your research, please look into the History of the Union in detail!

Its time for a change, and time to become The Kingdom of Scotland once again, or indeed The Republic of Scotland!

People wake up and look outside, things cant get worse! We are at rock bottom, as a nation its time to ACT!

580. SMC - Edinburgh
I too have had postings not published. But I'm in favour of Independence, so I don't think it's any political bias.

Perhaps I misspelt my email address, perhaps I wrote out my posting and forgot to fill in the boxes above. Perhaps the moderator decided I'd posted enough for the day / week, maybe the server lost my postings.

I too never received any bounce messages, if postings are rejected then indeed the moderator should inform the poster of this, with the reason for bouncing.

The software for this board is a little primitive - maybe a future reincarnation could use a better program, maybe with whitelists, maybe with proper registration. On the other hand, the way it is makes it easier for one time posters, and this is an advantage, it encourages wider participation.