The Scottish Government

In response to kevpb - In your attempt to pick an argument with one of this sites token unionists it would appear that your are jumping on any point just to 'have a go'. Nonetheless, at least it proves that I am doing my job correctly.

Now I have said that after independence all Britons would diverge along different paths and at some point what we have in common just now would seem less significant and unimportant. I stand by that point and I’ll point to some of Britain's former colonies to further it.

Look at places like Australia. As little as 100 years ago British sentiment among Australians was still very strong. For the most part Australians and I include second and third generation Aussies here, saw British history and customs as their own. Do you think modern Australians still do? Or do you think that most couldn’t care less?

Now I know that you see such statements as noting more than scare tactic used to foster suspicion and undermine your noble cause. It just so much more glamorous to believe in a rosy future where everything works out for the best, no one suffers and everything that the nationalists say goes according to plan. But then again I’m just a pessimistic, cynical guy who doesn’t like change, right?

In many ways however I can see why you and others like you believe what you believe. There is something exciting about being the underdog fighting against 'oppression'.

Now MD from Inverness was correct when he said that many of you were suffering from a Braveheart mentality. In this category I would not include older nationalists who have believed in independence all their days but younger ones who were growing up when the film first came out and who have since seen it one to many times!

Now I make such comments in a light hearted manner so I hope no one sends me hate mail. But I stand by my argument that it is more glamorous to see Scotland as being a bonny wee nation who is unable to realise its full potential because of London’s power over us.

I know you’re a nationalist and all that but can I ask out of curiosity if there is anything about Britain which you like? I just always wanted to ask a nationalist that.

Cheers

Id like the FM to push for Independance.

Scotland needs to be under control by those who really trust their insticts that Scotland can be better then England.

Im not saying that itll be an easy trip once we declare independance but we will get their eventually.

I dont care much for what England gives us...Its not about money or power. I just want to be known as Scottish and for everyone in the world to know that Scotland is not a region in England.

People who are worried about money and power withint the world as just people who have not realised their is more to life then money and power.

If you really think Scotland is better off in the UK because we are one then you should really push for the exspansion of EU and for their to be greater powers in the EU over Britain because thats the same with the UK but on a smaller scale.

Plus with as a seperate country we could efficently tackle all mayjor problems in Scotland. We would have full control of all laws within the country so we could have the death penalty back and clean out those prisons...Svaing money and making room for more prisoners.

;)

I beleive in FULL Independence for Scotland from the rest of the uk, I think it is time to move on from just having a few little powers that the English allow you to have and move on to full freedom. Go 4 it!

I do not know much about this in detail but speaking on behalf of the younger generation of Scotland, I think Scotland should be free from the UK! I ask you First Minister to please do your best for this country and make it happen. If anyone hasnt heard already a man named Kelvin McKenzie made the people of Scotland feel silly and it was shown on BBC One Scotland !! I think its time to wake up and act on what we want. A country of our own.A voice in This world . Mr Salmond i will back you always as you share my dream for this country. Lets hope our dream comes true

In answer to #141 Gordon Murrey's interesting comments on my statement about the sources of Britishness I would refer him to Hume et al at the time of Scotlands greatest period- Scottish Enlightenment- when, as part of a push to have the Union accepted in the first place - the modern aproach to "Britishness" was very much concieved north of the Border, whether for good or bad.

The matter is also discussed at some length in that brilliant book on "How the Scots Discovered the Modern World and Everything in it". It is put forward there that the drive to "Britishness" was fundamental to the surge of Scottish Thinking at the time.

Further in the first volume of "The Edinburgh History of Scotland- the making of the Kingdom" Duncan comments on what made Britain and Scotland. This is the History of Scotland from ancient times until the Middle Ages. The term Ancient Britons usually refers to the Welsh but there seems to be truth in the fact that these peoples were Picts or Celts but not "English".

The first "British Convention" seems to have been in the late part of the Enlightenment period, in Edinburgh in 1793.

Anyway to finish. I hope that Scotland have a good win over the Ukraine on Saturday!

Hi all,
I firmly and passionately believe in Scottish independence. This is on the
basis of Scotland's unique history, heritage, ethnic mix, language, culture,
topographical geography and mindset.
Scotland transparently sits apart from the rest of it's UK neighbours in
these aspects. From Pictish roots to Viking invasion, to clan warfare and
the unusual (for its time) "consensus incorporating diversity" style of rule
that Scotland has experienced, it is clear to me how profoundly it differs
from "Middle England" from where much of Scotland's woes have originated.

However, in embracing that very diversity that is do doggedly Scottish, I
think the SNP should tread carefully in pursuing the independence issue.
While it their' stated aim and preference and thus their responsibility to
the electorate to deliver movement on the issue, I am afraid that too
aggressive gestures may frighten off undecided voters.
I think a referendum it vital and the only democratic way forward. I think
one should be called. The SNP however must learn to eat the elephant of
Independence "one bite at a time" in a way that is more digestible to the
masses. Thus a fall back position of enhanced devolution should be aimed for
by the Government in the first instance. Loss of Yes / No referendum would
be a tragic loss of momentum and credibility for the SNP, whereas a win on
enhancement would set stage for a further referendum, perhaps in the next
term of the Scottish Parliament.

Thoughts?

Martin.

This is a thought for those who have no political interest in independence: SUSTAINABILITY. (and Scotland)

Scotland is the only country in the UK which can actually support its own population from its own resources. There are over 60 million people in the U.K, and there is not enough land, enough water or wind oil or electricity to provide those people with the food and fuel they need to survive. There is quite simply not enough land in Britain to feed its people. If you take Scotland out of the equation, with its relatively small population, open spaces significant natural resources, and the picture for England-and-wales looks a lot worse. England is massively dependent on food shipped in from outside its borders. Has anyone sitting in their ivory tower of global invulnerability actually considered what would happen if this external flow dried up?

A country which cannot support its own population from its own resources is a time-bomb waiting to go off. It is not sustainable - it is a land leaning on a crutch, and all that needs to happen is for that crutch to be removed. As a samll, independent nation, Scotland is the only country in the UK which has sufficient natural resources and a samll enough population scattered over a wide enough area to actually support its own people on its own land. Why do you think that so much money, time and effort is spent by the establishment-controlled media in damnning the idea Scottish independence? The future for England without its fine Scottish garden to draw from is not bright at all.

Small, independent nations are best able to look after their own interests and the interests of their people*. A country which can support its own population need not fear times of global famine,war or embargo**. It can be secure in knowing that its realtionship with the environment is healthy and of course Sustainable.

*they also tend to be so busy looking after themselves that they have less time to play global c**k-ups, a favourite pastime for some other countries.

[that's just one reason to vote for independence!]

Hi Gavin

Sorry it’s taken me so long to get back to you. I've been busy you see running around the country draped in my Union Jack trying to show nationalists the error of their ways. It’s tough you know - trying to get through all that nationalist propaganda...but hey I’ve got to try!

Anyway here I go. The fundamental difference between you and I is that you view 'that lot down south' as our colonial overlords, people not to be trusted. They use Scotland and disregard the will of our bonny wee nation. Over the last 300 years 'that mob south of Berwick' have used every trick in the book to undermine our sense of national pride and identity.

Unsurprisingly I don’t accept such nonsense but hey my views coloured by my red, white and blue specks, right?

Now you say that 'surely it is a second class nation that has no effective expression for its political will'. Are you calling Scotland a second class nation? On a nationalist website. Tut tut.

Just out of curiosity what is Scotland's political will? Independence? I touched on this point in an earlier thread but I notice that you have conveniently ignored it so I’ll ask again. Do the majority of Scots want independence? I think we both know the answer.

So I’ll put it to you this way. You’re standing in the street one day with a survey in your hand. You stop 100 Scottish people and ask them ‘do you consider yourself to be Scottish/British’. Most say Scottish but if pressed would also say British. You ask the same 100 people 'do you believe in independence'? The majority say ‘no’.

Now you say that today with the EU (and I presume globalisation) independence does not mean separation. So where exactly does that leave you and your argument? Are you saying that an independent Scotland would still be British in some way? Because if that’s what you are saying then you a ‘monumentally naive’ my good friend.

You are correct however when you say that Scotland is different from the rest of the UK. We always have been and it is for precisely that reason that Britain has never been a unitary state. It also explains why our so called ‘Scottishness’ has remained with us over the last 300 years.

I must say though that it has been funny reading your threads. You are so anti-British it’s unreal. There’s no in between with you. You’re either Scottish or British. It would appear that you look at those who see themselves as both as some sort of hybrid weirdo, not truly Scottish or British. You also say that ‘we unionists’ are xenophobic folk who sneer at every other nation in Europe. So how is this for an answer. Polls have shown that Euro-scepticism north of the border equals and in some cases exceeds that shown down south. Just add an extra question into your survey and ask the same 100 Scots their views on Europe.

You must also be some sort of psychologist because you constantly make assumptions as to what I believe without any form of psychological consultation! I mean you say that I see all great Scots as Britons first. So here is another answer for you. Pre-1707 all great Scots were Scots post-1707 all great Scots were Scottish AND British! Crazy talk I know!

Now Gavin, you know as well as I do that last May’s election results had more to do with dissatisfaction with UK Labour, and to a smaller degree Jack McConnell. People did not vote for independence. They voted because of their anger at issues such as Iraq, trident and so on and if you believe otherwise then its time to take of your tartan specks.

Cheers

The SNP is the only party that puts Scottish people before British profits in Scotland, and I strongly feel that the only way forward for the Scottish people, is through and Indipendance from the Westminster spinning machine.

I want my Scotland to be independent so that my daughter has something to look forward to, other than immigration. The Westminster quangos are traditionally anti Scottish. London love nothing better than to bad mouth the Scottish population, when they need to score political points.They treat Scotland with nothing but contempt.Scotland needs a government with conviction and a 'backbone' that will fight for us. If we want to survive as Scotland, now is the time.