The Scottish Government

Here I am, a Londoner speaking about the future of scotland. I just wanted to offer a perspective of how people feel down south sometimes.

Lots of people have spoken about Scotland being ruled by the English, if anything the evidence would be that it is the other way round. The last two prime ministers were Scottish and were the last two chancellors of the Exchequer. Scottish MPs can vote on things which don't effect their constituents and this has been used to pass controversial legislation in England. Also the government spends more per head on Scottish people than it spends on English people.

The usual response to this is that it is because of oil wealth in the north sea, but why is this Scottish oil, why is it not Shetland oil, or Aberdeen Oil seeing as it is located off the coastline of these areas and these haven't always been part of a unified scotland. Should they get more money spent on them per head?

As a final point do you support the decrease in vetos to the EU in so much as things are not being decided in Westminster collectively but in Brussels collectively.

As a (half english half welsh) outsider to this debate, I hope you dont mind me joining in! One potential impact of an independant Scotland that you might like to discuss; perhaps The Labour Party don't get elected in England for another 50 years, without the help of Scottish MPs. The Tories (unopposed) revert to type and start cutting taxes. Wouldn't an independent Scotland have to change it's 'big government' / socialist' tendencies to keep taxes competitive? -

Independence for Scotland would be terrible for the country. We are much stronger as part of the UK.

Government Minister Douglas Alexander, in a recent BBC One 'Question Time ' programme argued that the UK contributed only between one and two percent of the total of green gases released into the atmosphere and that any meaningful contribution that the UK could make to reducing greenhouse gases would be by cooperating with other countries. And until then the UK would get on with matters of a more pressing nature.

The facts are:

(1) There is no more pressing issue than the question of the release of gases which are responsible for the global climate over heating.
(2) The UK is responsible for not between one and two percent but between ten and fiftenn percent of greenhiouse gases entering the atmosphere. WHy? Because of the amount of goods that the UK imports from other countries and through the provision or manufacture of goods and services via our overseas investments.
(3) The UK does not have to wait for another country to come forward to join us in combating the causes of global overheating. Sweden, Denmark and other fringe countries of Europe have legislated to reduce their impact with hard targets being set. But the truth is the Westminster government has shown little interest in giving a lead on the matter. Even though we are the second in the national league of consumption. Only the USA consumes more!

Finally the recent statement eminating from Westminster that the Westminster government will actively lobby to reduces the targets already agreed to by EU member states. And we scots are complicit by association.
It is time we did something about it. The Scottish government should makes its position clear. That we in Scotland support the targets already agreed to but also we will support strengthening these targets.
Scotland has the potential to be a major supplier of green energy. The westminster threat if carried through will put the brakes on future investment in this crucial area. It cannot be allowed to succeed.

Though I'm not Scottish or British, i feel that the people of Great Britain should put aside their historical differences and united together to face the challenges of the future. Together Scots,English,Welsh and Irish ruled 1/4 of the world and became the most powerful nation on earth. Being united, Britain has withstood many challenges and survived. A single stick may be weak but together in a bunch they are strong.

Hello Craig

You quote me as saying that Scotland is a 2nd class nation because it has no effective expression for its political will.

Nice try Craig - if I truly believed Scotland was a 2nd class nation we would not be in disagreement would we - and you could happily continue with yours 'womens guild' weekend hobby kind of nationalism.

You support Scotland in the same way as you might support a hobby like stamp collecting. You like to do it, but if it gets too serious, or gets taken too seriously you can always stop.

It is precisely because I believe Scotland is a first class nation that I am campaigning for independence

You use my example of asking 100 people in the street what nationality they think themselves and end '...if pressed would also say British'. Perhaps, but only because politically we are shoehorned into that position. If you press the 100 a bit harder and said 'Devolution isn't working - you have to choose between independence and reverting to direct rule', I think you would get a resounding vote for independence.

If you are so confident that independence does not have support presumably you are in favour of a referendum ???

Perhaps you would favour a referendum over the whole UK ? After all, in your eyes the people in the South of England should have as much of a say on Scotland as those of us who actually live here.

As I have already stated the 'Union' is not so popular that the Scots are prepared to dilute their demand for ever more powers - that will ultimately lead to de facto independence. I've never heard any serious Scottish politician say 'Oh we can't ask for that power in case it undermines the Union'. This debate is about what is best for Scotland, not what is best for the Union or your chums in Westminster.

You question the idea that an independent Scotland would still be British.

France and Belgium speak the same language but are independent of each other. They are also both still European, and have not descended into a warlike state. This 'the end of the world is nigh' nonsense just does not stack up. It's also pretty childish and 'niaive'.

I was slightly taken aback by your response to my accusation that Unionists are xenophobic and racist.

Rather than denying it you make a spirited defence of the indefensible, by saying a lot of Scots are xenophobic too, and that it is 'a good thing'.

It is probably true that some Scots are isolationist like you, but I do not think it is a majority. After all, if they all thought like you surely they would be Unionist - clearly they are not.

Your views and the views of fellow Unionists would be far more at home in Nazi Germany where you could happily have a go at Wops, Wogs, Blacks, Jews, and all other non-Arians (in your case non-British).

You also accuse me of psycho-analysing you. Well look at it this way - I'm not charging you - it's all part of the service - though I do think you would benefit from some professional counselling, particularly after we get independence.

You finish by harking back to the May election as some sort of aberration. People vote for all sorts of reasons but clearly people could have been under no illusion what the SNP stands for? And lets face it - the voters were not put off by that.

If the SNP had won another 13% or so we would not be having this debate now, we would be independent, and thanks to people like you support for independence grows stronger every day.

If you think things will ever revert to the old status quo then it is you who are monumentally niaive.

Cheers

188. Gordon Murray - Livingston

"The people here have never spoken gaelic"

That's a common misconception. At it's hight, Gaelic was spoken over most of Scotland.

183. Mike - Shetland
Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:44

Shetland having no heritage of kilts, bagpipes or other similar tourist trappings?

To be Scottish you reckon we ought to be running around in kilts, swearing in Gaelic, and blawing our bagpipes then?

Is that what you expected, your own wee island Brigadoon?
I might argue that neither has.... pick any Scottish central belt town or city.

The people here have never spoken gaelic and have always had very limited means to aquire it if they wanted to.

The local dialect contains remains of Norn mixed with English and Scots, German, Italian, French, Hindu, you name it they're all in there.


If you do live in Shetland then why not look into whatever became of the Shetland Movement, and also into it's relationship with the Scottish nationalists?

The people above who dream about this anti Englishness and their rather inventive notion that being pro Scottish relies on being anti English are both wrong and missing the point.

My close relatives are English, and I love them. I also happen to think highly of English and English people, and always have.

I happen to not have a similar mind for the 'British' system of government as you will have guessed.

This is not a crime to be Independently minded, and it isn't an exclusive position reserved only for Scots who have voted SNP either.

Have any of you who believe that Scottish people are somehow anti English ever read any of the Daily Telegraph editorials that are for English only editions?

Try that one.

By all means consider the recent election win that saw Labour booted deservedly out of power as a mere glitch, or as one of you stated "a protest vote", however the Labour party as a whole look unelectable in any future Scottish parliament, and indeed were far too scared to go to the whole of the UK in what is called a general election.

Their antics out of power in Scotland as well as the ones in minority UK power under Gordon Brown have been clownish and very amateurish.

If Labour believed they could win an election, they would have gone for that.

As to the union, a 'National Conversation' and indeed all the other debates that consider the future of Scotland are only feared by Labour types, particularly the redundant MWP's who are in something called the Scottish Office which is a mouthpiece for Westminster in Scotland rather than representing Scottish interests in Westminster.

The whole idea of eventual Independence for Scotland will come from the electorate being more sophisticated and informed, and of course cringing in disbelief at the efforts of our 'Scottish" press (as many people inclusive of opposition voters have done since May).

You see, the press have led themselves down a garden path that they will find difficult to return from, they are a disgrace.

We ned to talk about our collective futures, and I know the politicians who are scared by the very thought.

Gus MacRury

In my humble opinion the UK government lost a' competence under blair and have never regained it.What do we get from oor gordon?Just mair broon stuff from a hapless government.Long enough we've gone cap in hand to Westminster.Enough,if we're to get on in the world it's time to scrap this pointless union,which should never have been at a'.