The Scottish Government

Post 468 Michael Holmes - I hope you understand that you represent the nasty underbelly of British NATIONALISM. Nice hint of sectarianism in there too for the mix?!

Incidentally, the UK Government is not a real government either by your logic. It has devolved much of its former powers to Holyrood, Cardiff Bay and Stormont; equally it has to follow many EU directives and enshrine them in law. So the UK Government is "not a real government" either.

For your information, Alex Salmond personally favours independence with the Queen remaining as head of state: "Elizabeth 1st Queen of Scots". That is not my personal preference, but it is the view backed by the leader of the SNP (which you seem to think is nothing but Irish Republicanism in disguise).

Finally, all independent economic analysis suggests that an independent Scotland would prosper. Do you have any stats to prove your case, or is your claim that independence would be a financial disaster just based on blind faith?

PMK Ayrshire

Don`t think you can win this one mate! If you re-read Michael`s post 468 very closely, in between the lines you can just about make out the words HORSE / DEAD /FLOG ! (rearrange at you leisure)

Anyway Independence is bound to be financial suicide for Scotland, "Father Cairns" said so and he NEVER lies ! :-)

470. Ellis Sims
I'm not politically aware enough to understand the ramifications of federal countries like Canada, but I presume this would be like devolution, but with more powers. In that case I would support it just as I support devolution, and devolution with increased powers. But my preferred option in ascending order is still full independence - and independence outside the EU as the top one.

Outside the EU we could control all our own policies and budgets for RET, roads and communications, fishing, etc. Inside the EU we could negotiate for these rights as part of oour package, rather than being included in the overall British package.

A lot is made by opponents of independence that as a small country we wouldn't have the same power of negotiation as Britian does. But ours would all be relative to our own needs and aspirations.

Small is representative and relevant. It's also dynamic and responsive rather than monolithic and cumbersome.

An issue I see is that the Westminster government still hasn't moved on from the days of the British Empire, and I feel it's perhaps more alive in emotions and actions in England than in Scotland. This Empire is gone, it's split up, it's passed, it's history.

It's time to move on. Welcome to the 21st century!

471. Davie - the land of Milk and Honey

Hi Davie

Thanks for your posting; it seems to put the nationalist side very fairly & I wasn’t sure how to reply at first.

One answer would be to say how you feel about Scotland is how I feel about Britain.

Another answer could really have been to agree with the sentiment behind Michael Holmes’ comment posted Tuesday 26th Feb. (interesting isn’t it, how BRITISH nationalism is “unpleasant” but SCOTTISH nationalism is good enough to sustain an entire (minority) government!)

In the end I picked out a couple of your questions as you seem genuinely interested in the answers.

If Scotland leaves the Union then Wales will surely follow. As for Northern Ireland - the Unionists there have been sold (by both Labour & the Tories) down the river long ago & will be lucky not to find themselves in a united Ireland some time soon.

What would be destroyed is my sense of national identity - my Britishness. Under those circumstances I don’t find words like ‘destroy’ harsh; dramatic maybe but then so is the loss.

If you read my other postings Davie, you will see I’ve never played the financial card; in fact I’ve said you can’t put an economic value of nationhood & if you don’t feel British then of course you should vote SNP for an independent Scotland.

Which brings me back to my starting point which is my country is Great Britain first, (England second) & I feel about Britain how you feel about Scotland.

We are both nationalists Davie!

Mike

473. davie - land of milk and honey.

Thanks for the reply. Not hoping to win that particular battle, just wanting someone to challenge Mr Holmes' "analysis" of the situation.

475. Mike King
I think your posting does sum up the whole conversation, there's nothing wrong with nationalism in itself, and it boils down to what we feel is our national identity to feel nationalist about.

It's funny really how any debate and disagreement could be turned, with the will, into total harmonious agreement and accord about general principles! It's just in the detail ...

Here in Ireland we did not ned Oil but we are just a small nation of 4 million/Scots who oppose Independence have for years bowed to Westminster rule for far too long.Stop doing what your masters tell you to do fown in London.Independence for Scotland is coming and it is copming fast so watch out all you Anti- Independencers.

#478 Kevin O'Leary

Well done Kevin, you really have a grasp of the facts, NOT.

When did you get your 'freedom' from the UK, 1920? (ish). When did you become a celtic tiger? 1990 (ish). Having used the UK for 70 years to provide migrant work you joined the EU and thanks to the grants you got for being a peasant economy managed to create a modern manufacturing / service sector. We managed that without the seperation. In fact we've devoloped more countries around the world than you've had hot dinners, as well as looking after ourselves.

Like Sir Sean and the rest of the overseas well - wishers, you look after your own place of abode, we'll look after ours!!

Hi there people of all opinion.
i am here to say that EVERY nation on earth has the right to govern itself when its people so wish.
the sovereignty of a nation lies solely in its folk therefore when the people of this nation decide they want Independence then it will occur.
people can post opinion,that is why this site is here but i note that some writers imagine that Ireland freeloaded from the UK,which is myth.
you may as well say the UK ripped off half the world,which of course it did,but that only creates more resentment and does not either contribute to a measured debate,nor keep to the point of this forum,which is to GAUGE OPINION ON SCOTLAND gaining full independence and taking a seat among EQUALS on the world stage.
ok so famous people live in other nations and want to see their nation free,so what? it is no reason to mock them.the next time you turn on your Japanese computer you might want to think about who made it.
unionist people love the union ok
those who love independence have the right to argue for it.
that is what freedom means.
let the people who write here put their view forward in a way that is not mere snideness
polite words go farther.
unionist politics have failed the nation
if not there would be no child poverty after hundreds of years of union politics,and think on the fact that the people who try to stop Independence do so out of hatred or jealousy or they poo poo the minority nationalist politics unfairly.
give the man a few years you might find he gets things right.
if every person voted unionist tomorrow what would the nation return to?
old tried failed politics that done little to end the obvious divisions in the nation.
look at the nation you live in
is it equal
is it free
is it fair
is it moving to where you want it to go
people who want Independence are not nationalist
they might just be people who think the nation has something to offer the world.
if you cant believe that why bother to post a message?
freedom will come when people want it.
i think the nation can be free.

474. Dave Eastabrook - Largs, Ayrshire

Re "But my preferred option in ascending order is still full independence - and independence outside the EU as the top one."

Dave, you know you won't ever get your top preference so wouldn't a federal UK be better than Scotland out of the UK but in Europe?