The Scottish Government

Ah Independence - wouldn't it be great to live like the Irish and the Norwegians in our own little tartan utopia? Politicians can make many claims on how life would be, how about some methodical, rational feasibilty studies.
Looking at the many comments on this website it occurs to me that an informed, well presented national debate is required - perhaps the BBC in Govan could actually spend some of my license fee on providing this extremely important social service on primetime TV? And maybe even have input from a representative group of people instead of verbal ping-pong.

I don't promote violence, its clear that violence is not even a remote possibility here, thank the heavens.
I do read history - in detail. The union of the crowns was not solely decided by James VI/I you know, if the English parliament had n't of wanted it, do you think it would have happened? And look at the reign, after his English coronation he spent how many years in Scotland? I'm don't mean to tweak any Scottish noses by saying this, but the Union has always had Scotland as the junior partner. What I would like to see is three independent nations who perhaps have joint armed forces, so when a war decision needs to be made, all three have to agree. Iraq would not have happened then I feel. Thats a true Union.

"Europe" is not just an "economic Union" as Angus Robertson claims but a "political and economic community with supranational and intergovernmental features" according to Wikipedia.

It formally ceased any pretence at being a trading group with the creation of the European Union in the Maastricht Treaty of 1993.

This replaced the European Economic Community and paves the way for the creation of the United States of Europe

241. simse01 - Gosport

"And i would like to add a point in saying that the people who say that England "rules" Scotland are completely wrong ..."

Whilst I can accept your assertion that their are a number of Scots on the front bench, this does not mean that Scotland is any way an equal partner with England in this Union.

Without wishing to be patronising in anyway it is a basic principle of democracy that majority rules, therefore how can Scotland be an equal partner with her population of 5 million to England population of 60 million?

At Westminster Scotland has 59 MP's, Wales has 40 and England has 529 ... or so, I've been led to believe. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, although it feels about right! It's all very democratic and that's fine, as far as it goes, but it does mean that Scotland and Wales can largely be steamrolled on every and any issue they might disagree with.

regards
Alasdair Martin
http://manaboutthehouse.wordpress.com

to Rob Arnold, maybe you should take a look at history yourself, it was a Scottish monarch who created the union of the crowns, it was a Scottish monarch which passed the Act of Union 1707. Yes your point about Michael Collins and Goerge Washington were good ones, but your making it out to be that i am completely against the concept of Home Rule. This isn't true, i think that the Scottish parliament was a great idea and i believe that areas of the Uk which don't have Home Rule should or extended powers

But violence isn't always needed for Independence, is it?

What about the former Czechoslovakia? It peacefully split, but found Economic Hardship, the hopes of Slovakia becoming a Economic tiger were dashed with low GDP growth. Dual citizenship wasn't allowed until both the Czech Republic and Slovakia joined the EU.

Since the United Kingdom is more interwined, the impact would noticiably greater in a negative sense.

After all the pro-seperatist comments on this page, i have not found one decent reason to split apart. In fact these comments and futher cemented my understanding that we are far better off in the Union. Plus in a world of increased Compitition and Globalizastion, what good points are their for dissolution of the Union?

I dont agree with David Robertson comments about Scotland and Europe. He thinks that Scotland will have the same relationship with Europe as it has done with England since 1707. He could nt be more wrong. While we have traditionally posed a threat to Englands northern border and more importantly for us, they have posed a threat for our very existance, Europe does not rule by the same method as England, they are not looking for domination and total intergration and they certainly dont see us as a threat, it is an economic union for the bettering of all countries in Europe. We need Europe because for 300 years the Scots have not had the power to govern and enter the international political stage. We are at a point of being released from an English prison and we at least need Europe as a half way house, if not we are taking a huge gamble on independance. Remeber there has been no war in the union of Europe since it was formed.

In response to post #191.

''Together Scots,English,Welsh and Irish ruled 1/4 of the world and became the most powerful nation on earth.''

Not necessarily a good thing, many heinous crimes were commited in the name of the English monarch while the Empire was still in existence. Suppression of nations that wanted out and that Britain had no legal or moral right too occupy in the first place.

Millions died in countries as far apart as India and Ireland, yes Ireland - a (forced) constituent of this supposed great prosperous Union. A million people starving to death in ''West Britain'' would seem to suggest that the Union has never been all it was cracked up to be.

The act of union is living on borrowed time, if (or should that be 'when'?) Scotland chooses its independence, the whole thing unravels.

Thanks Alasdair, I'll certainly check that site out. I think that patriots in all four nations have a lot in common with each other, and can help each others cause.
To simse01, I would say read history. Michael Collins was no more a terrorist than George Washington was.In fact, his tragedy is not that he revelled in violence, but that he compromised at what many perceive as a crucial point: in order to save lives. Save them from the inevitable 'total war' promised by the then government of 'Great' Britain.
To see as all as Britons is simplistic. There's no getting round the fact that the Anglo-Saxons arrival ethnically divided the main island forever,and since the Plantation of Ulster, we've done our best to divide Ireland too. We have four quite separate nations, that no amount of histry has ever been able to erase. What unity they have is mainly the result of conquest & coercion from the English. The United Kingdom was the English Empire and now must be dismantled as the British Empire was. In favour of a more equal partnership. A Council of the Isles.

#237. Andrew - Aberdeen

"Independence is not about England" - actually it is. As much as it is about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and Scottish independance cannot be considered in isolation ... to do so is fool hardy at best!

I think that the point that Arnold in Norwich was making is that each 'home nation' would be better off as an independant nation. It's certainly a position with which I would concur. It also seems to be a growing opinion in the other nations that constitue the union.

What should not be ignored is that Scottish independance may be hastened if there is support in the other parts of the union for the same for themselves.

In the end it may not simply be the case that Scotland becomes independent because her people want it, but also because the English want *their* independance too. And why not.

There are a widerange of discussion forums for constitutional matters, not least of all http://ourkingdom.opendemocracy.net/ if you look there is lots more opinion and debate out there than simply on here.

Regards

Alasdair Martin
http://manaboutthehouse.wordpress.com

Mike King is right, its about a feeling of nationhood, not economics. However, whilst he feels British, I don't, and I think thats what it comes down to. Does being British mean anything to you? The majority of the citizens of Alabama feel American, citizens of New South Wales feel Australian etc. Does that same feeling exist in this Union of ours?