The Scottish Government

Independence could work in Scotland - but not yet. It'll be a gradual process, with more powers being handed down. I'd say we'd be independent in 20-or-so years.

However, we can't forget it's a one way road, we can't go down it and do a u-turn if what we see at the other end is something we don't like.

Re: 428. Kev - Edinburgh
Wednesday, February 6, 2008 14:54

"Mike, (426) ....But and its a big but do you have the maturity or understanding of politics to make a clear comment!?"

Accusing those with different opinions to you of a 'lack of maturity' is another example of how this forum has degenerated into name calling.

Still, no doubt that was an instinctive reaction to a posting that was a little too close to the truth…..

As I (& others) have pointed out before, the UK (& therefore England as well) has a disproportionately high number of Scottish constituencies in Westminster as well as of Scots in the cabinet, including the 2 most powerful posts, PM & Chancellor.

Your Westminster MPs vote on issues effecting me whilst my MP cannot vote on the same issue in Scotland because your Parliament has those powers.

If you have read my other posts you will see I’ve already said I’m proud to be in a Union with Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland. (& have Welsh & Scottish relatives too)

430. Dave Eastabrook - Largs, Ayrshire
RE: "However, saying that independence is the correct choice for Scotland was/is a personal belief, and requires absolutely no backing up by facts. What we believe and hold in our hearts does not have to be justified to anyone, except perhaps ourselves"

Put like that, you are right & I apologise to Angela Fitzgibbon.

That's how I feel about my country - only difference is my country is Great Britain.

I guess the question to ask you Dave, is what (if anything) would get you to support the Union?

Brilliant!
I have just read that we are going to give £700,000 to Malawi because it is a poor country.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I read this week that POVERTY is what is holding back Glasgow's development as a nice City to live in!!
So run that by me again....... We are giving £700,000 to Malawi!!! I bet that will be a great comfort to all those in Glasgow.
Here's another thought. Why don't the 'government' spend £700,000 in Edinburgh to make the roads good enough to drive on. I was in there on Wednesday night and as a result I will probably have to take my car to a garage to get the front wheels straightened after all the potholes, ruts, bumps and car breakers that I had to run over in the CAPITAL city.
Charity begins at home!! Lets get THIS country sorted before we start giving money away to other countries.

434. Mike King
A short answer is that while we're in the union, I would support it. I well remember having to defend Margaret Thatcher when working in Germany - while slagging her back home here!

The rest would be a long answer, so in this posting I'll just make one point.

Strangely enough probably the one thing could be done to reduce independence fever in Scotland would be to sort out the media, particularly the BBC who are paid for by our license fees, as well as by the English - and Welsh and Northern Irish.

First thing to do would be to sack the producers and commentators of the "British" sports programmes. There's nothing more annoying than happily (or not so happily at times!) watching Scotland playing a world cup rugby match, and then half time "let's go over to the England camp". Not, note, the Tongan camp or the All Blacks camp, but the England camp. International sports coverage by the Beeb is completely English-centric. School holidays are another - when ours are different we have no childrens' films or programmes.

There are more serious issues like Westmonster having no interest in fishing, tagging 3.5 million sheep around the Highlands (not a lot of sheep in London I daresay, unless it be the Scottish MPs loving the capital city lifestyle). A lot of our issues are shared by the majority of England which is outside London and the Home Counties.

By and large though, Scotland is a socialist country, with islands and ferries, a stripped industrial and manufacturing sector, and a lot of poverty. This is a fundamental difference that can not be addressed within the union, even with stronger powers for Holyrood. London, the city state (to mix it up a bit) cares about - London. To be fair, with independence we'd have the same problem with Edinburgh.

But the one that's in our faces all the time is the media.

RE: 436. Dave Eastabrook

Thanks for your comments Dave; whilst I can assure you many of us living north of London (e.g. Birmingham) also suffer from London's dominance I appreciate it must rankle more the further from London one is.

As for "By and large though, Scotland is a socialist country, with islands and ferries, a stripped industrial and manufacturing sector, and a lot of poverty" - England too has a "stripped industrial & manufacturing sector & a lot of poverty"

But is that really about the Union?

Scotland has returned a majority of Labour (socialist)MPs for many years now & along with Welsh voters, has been responsible for returning a UK labour government on several occasions.

Would they be better at running an independent Scotland than they have the UK?

I'm not a Labour voter but I don't think so; after all, the UK's economy has been managed by a Scot for the last decade!

Anyway, for me, its not about economics, sport or London's dominance it is about (as you said) what I feel "in my heart" - and that is British.

question;how would the nation retain independence while in the eu?
answer;in the exact wasy that other independent nations do in these times.
with the population in the nation less than 5 million the people would actually have a stronger voice than in the uk
if any writer thinks that the eu doesnt listen i say london is deaf.
an newly independent nation may have the right to withdraw from the eu i dont recall that edinburgh agreed to join for eternity.

433 Mike,

I think I see were your coming from, and its not a very nice view and borders on being Racist's what is wrong with the Prime Minister/Chancellor being Scottish?.
Surely in your eyes he's british after all GB is all for the union flag.Is it just the fact he is Scottish or would you be so quick to de-cry him if he was say Welsh or a women or gay?, on a side note your union also doesn't allow the PM to be a Roman Catholic, another good reason for Scotland to go it alone.

Also why is there a disproportionately high number of Scottish Mp's? do you also keep count on say the ratio to male female MP's or their sexual preference?
If it bothers you that much then you should be all for Scotland breaking your union, after all Scotland in the main rejects your particular right wing brand of conservatism.
Independence is the correct choice for Scotland, you still haven't once answered the basic point that the gap between rich and poor is at its highest and the national wage in England is 27% higher than Scotland, our biggest city is the sickest in Europe.
At the end of the day Mike it will matter little what you think, as it will be up to the people of Scotland to decide our future, and I for one am quietly confident and excited at the chance of improving our lot.

If we are to consider going down the road of Independence, or even enhanced devolution, we must abandon any ideas tinged with racism and develop and expansive idea about who "the people" are in the equation. We must move away from ideas which incorporate anti-Englishness (or anti-anything else for that matter), and develop and concept of "Scotland's people" which not only feels inclusive to citizens in Scotland who were not born here, but which is so appeaing that others want to become part of it. Independence or devolution plus is essentially a lifestyle option. With it, we would be choosing to order our affairs in a different way to the UK model. Those different priorities, coupled with the existing attractions of living in Scotland, should make becoming one of Scotland's People an appealing proposition. Scotland will need more skills, more investment, a larger workforce, and a community which is exciting and diverse rather than parochial and inward looking. We should be encouraging people to move here not from Europe and overseas, but we should also seek to attract people from other parts of Britain who see Scotland as the most attractive lifestyle option in the UK. So being one of Scotland's People cant just be about accent, race
and birth. It must be inclusive enought to feel welcoming and enlightened. The elements of Scottish Culture which hold the sense of national identity together must be presented as something which you can buy into as much or as little as you like, but which are not held as barriers to entry of the People of Scotland club. Thousands of people from England and other places have already adopted Scotland as their hoome because they like the place and its people. If we move towards independence, we must make sure these people still feel they have full-membership, and that we dont create an Exodus of adopted-Scots who suddenly feel the country is for native-Scots only.

So lets start working on makeing Scotland and inclusive and welcomin place. Lets have a plan to create more Scots. And lets make sure that there are not different degrees of membership of Scotland determined by race.

Kev

We live in a democratic society and thus every one of us has a choice. I know when Burns night is but I choose not to celebrate it! Why? Because it doesn’t appeal to me!

You can blame London all you want but it’s about time you started looking closer to home. Stop 100 people on the street and ask them if they celebrate Burns night or St. Andrews day and 90% will say no. Ask them why and they’ll say their too busy, it doesn’t appeal or who’s Burns?

You also seem really annoyed about your holidays. But are u suggesting that we turn our backs on 300 years of history just so we can sleep in late 2 or 3 extra days a year?

Oh, and I believe Scottish banks have reassured us that our notes are safe!

Cheers