The Scottish Government

What ever happens, the SNP cannot lose. It is in their very culture, understandably, to fight for everything Scottish, Independence included. Any other party arguing against such avid support for their country is on a road to nowhere. This is why things are going so wrong for Labour and the Lib Dems at the moment. Its not a master plan, but it feels like one! Bring it on!

[651] An argument in support of the 'political status quo' of the Union does not seem to ring true when the relatively poor social and physical health of much of Glasgow's population that has persisted over recent decades is recognised. Unless one is generally content with this situation, why would one not wish to change things, and perhaps significantly improve things for those who are most vulnerable?
Coming from ‘West Central Scotland’ myself, I can understand misgivings about an Edinburgh-based parliament, but surely even those with the most pessimistic outlook would concede that given the large section of the Scottish population living in West Central Scotland, the people of Glasgow will have a much more direct say in how Scotland's resources are managed and targeted in an Independent Scotland than they will ever have in the Westminster Parliament?
Perhaps subconsciously, if not consciously, some may fear that the majority of English MPs in London will make better decisions for Glasgow (and Scotland) than Glaswegians (and Scots) themselves, but personally I harbour no such fears!

It is "selfish" to want to spend your own money, apparently. Everyone remember to hand your pay-slip to your neighbour and ask them to spend it on your behalf! Clearly us Scots are nothing but children and cannot be trusted with anything but the pocket money offered by devolution. That one’s right out of the Lord George Foulkes playbook – "the SNP are trying to make public services in Scotland markedly better than those in England ... they are doing it on purpose".

In response to previous postings the question of Scottish independence goes beyond simply party politics. People might vote labour and support independence or in contrast vote SNP but actually are against independence.

Besides the fact that opinion polls state that the SNP is a popular administration which I clearly admit it is, I ironically believe that they are doing the right thing in standing up for Scotland however it does not mean that the majority of people support independence.

In reference to Scottish independence it is not effectively going to deal with these serious socio-economic issues that affect Glasgow. As a citizen I care more about improving living standards than about Scotland being independent.

I strongly believe that Scottish independence will magnify inequality in Scotland and other areas will become more powerful including Edinburgh in which I believe would be disastrous for Glasgow.

Until there is sufficient evidence to illustrate that more power and autonomy given to those in Edinburgh or anywhere else in Scotland can benefit Glasgow in any particular way then I will not support the notion of independence.

More revenue from North Sea oil reserves which are diminishing all the time is not simply going to resolve the severe social problems of low life expectancy or shocking levels of poverty in Glasgow.

These are the issues that are important to me personally more than the independence debate.

But whatever happens in the future this debate has effectively illustrated how Scotland is independent or not a strongly divided nation. As history has shown it is those nations with strong political and social divides never succeed.

It is this strong division that will be Scotland's biggest downfall in whatever it decides to do in future.

I respect those people who support independence but I'm not convinced by it and I believe those nationalists should RESPECT those who want to remain within the union.

647. Neil Anderson - Glasgow

"Is that not evidence enough?"

Course not. You assume that because one person votes Labour then they will not vote for Independence. This is wrong and once poll had shown that between 10-15% of those who regular support a Unionist Party would vote for Independence while another 10-15% who never vote would vote for Independence.

The by-Election in Glasgows East End should show you what Labour has accomplished within decades of having that seat.

"Male life expectancy across the city's East End is 68, five years less than the Scottish average, while in Shettleston it drops to just 63. Women, meanwhile, live on average to 74, which is still three years less than the national average. Across the area, 30 per cent of the population is described as "deprived", while 25 per cent are unemployed, compared with a national average of 5 per cent. Mortality rates from cancer and heart disease are all above average, with smoking in some pockets running at 50 per cent."

Shall you continue to vote Labour and still have the cheek to complain about the problems?

You vote Labour then that is what you will get.

One reason Labour abolished the 10p tax was to have more people relying on benefits and more likily to want Labours type of governing.

# 647 Neil Anderson - The SNP only stood 22 candidates for election in Glasgow at council level: all 22 were returned in May of last year. If more had been put forward then more would have been elected. As it was, only one multi-member ward (out of a total of 21) had more than one SNP candidate standing.

The rest of the info you mention is accurate enough, but probably outdated by now. Let’s see how Labour's 3rd safest seat in Scotland votes in the coming by-election (Glasgow East)! Even getting in a couple thousand votes of Labour in a constituency taking in much of Baillieston, Shettleston and Easterhouse would be a great achievement for the SNP (Labour's current majority is c13,5000).

Also, you must not confuse support for the SNP for support for independence - prior to the last election only around 50-60% of those backing independence voted SNP (in May last year it was closer to 75%). Tommy Sheridan may yet stand in Glasgow East and prove this point for me. Labour has a large nationalist-wing which is now wavering. Look to the coming by-elections in Glasgow-East and Glenrothes at Westminster, and Jack McConnell's seat of Motherwell and Wishaw at Holyrood.

As for Labour being more anti-sectarian than the SNP: Labour itself is divided by sectarianism: to the extent that some party officials feel it is appropriate to attack cabinet minister's for "voting the way the Pope tells them". Also, remember it was the SNP that the Orange Order (from all over the UK) paraded through Edinburgh against last May!

What hasn't been pointed out is that an independent Scotland would have to re-apply to join the EU. The European Commission has made this very clear. The international law on successor states means the rump UK would take on the responsibilities and membership of international organisations just as Russia did for the USSR and Serbia has for Yugoslavia. This presents a big problem for Scottish business as it would be outside of the common tariff meaning trade with the rest of the UK and Europe would become much more expensive and this would damage industries like banking and Whisky. Scotland would be forced to negotiate for 5-10 years on membership and would be forced to join the euro under the acquis communitaire. Also, countries with successionist movemebts like Spain would not want to set a precendent for the Basques or Catalans with independence within the EU and would be likely to veto Scottish membership.

You never hear nationalists ever tell you this.

I am a Unionist because we live in a world of greater dependence rather than parochialism.

We can achieve more together than we can apart and for Scotland which is more communitarian than England, I would have thought we would recognise this basic principle, instead of selfishness and uneccessary division.

In counter-response to my previous posting there is a wide range of evidence to illustrate that the majority of those living in the city of Glasgow are actually opposed to independence, even though there is support for it.

Look at the voting intentions of Glaswegian’s; there is only one nationalist MSP representing one area of the city. In relation to the Westminster Parliament every constituency is represented by a Unionist party i.e. Labour. With reference to Glasgow City Council only 30% of seats are represented by the SNP in which the labour party still control and will still control for a long time to come.

In addition in reference to this forum the majority of comments made from those living in Glasgow do not support or have made comments against the notion of independence.

Is that not evidence enough?

As I said before I'm not totally opposed to Scottish independence but I am still not convinced by it.

In response to the answers there is no guarantee whatsoever that there will be more resources available or EXTRA money to deal with the serious issues concerning Glasgow if Scotland became independent.

In addition the SNP has failed to account for some of the serious issues affecting Glasgow for example there was nothing in their manifesto telling the voting public on their policies to deal with racism and sectarianism which affect our city on a daily basis. In comparison it was the previous administration which undertook in innovative work to stamp out bigotry. I only hope the SNP will do the same.

Although I would agree with most people that the city of Glasgow is not as great as it once was it is an important place nevertheless. Even if Scotland was independent or not it would not survive without the city of Glasgow's existence. So many people from outside the city including those from Renfrewshire, Dunbartonshire, Lanarkshire and Ayrshire depend on it for work and employment.

Glasgow is also the largest retail centre outside London even beating larger cities such as Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds. I’m not trying to overestimate it's importance but it is still vital to the Scottish Economy. It is even holding Scotland's largest ever sporting event in 2014 with the commonwealth games.

And in relation to my final point posted the last time both London and Edinburgh have failed to deal with Glasgow's socio-economic problems effectively. Some areas of the city have been neglected and will continue to do so in future even if Scotland is independent or not. A more powerful city of Edinburgh does not mean that Glasgow will be transformed into a better place. (No offence to those living there)

644. Paul Lamont - Glasgow Riddrie

"The reason they were able to increase interest from foreign investors was because of EU subsidy- which they no longer give."

I suppose when the Irish reduced corperation tax by 50% that helped aswell.

Scotland is already suffering from the slowest growth rates within Britain.

If we were Independent it could not possibly get slower then our current situation.

Oil is running out. What has Britain provided for the North East of Scotland for when the oil does run out?

Or do they expect the Scots to move out of expect doe money because there are no longer any jobs?

I trust a Scottish Government with full powers to help re-invest for the future instead of relying on the UK-Gov because so far there is nothing.

# 644 - Yes of course independence can be afforded. Especially when treasury based figures show a Scottish surplus of £4.4 to £6.2 billion and even the GERs report commissioned by the last Labour Executive shows Scotland in modest surplus £800 million and the UK (as a whole) running a rather large deficit (c£4-5 billion). The question is can Scotland afford to be held back by the union much longer?

In relation to oil the UK currently relies on it to a large degree as well ... the beauty is with independence - after tax cuts (5p across the board on income tax and slashing corporation tax from 28 to 12.5% - the same as in Ireland) we would still have between £1 and £2 billion a year to invest in an oil fund to make sure the money outlasts the oil. While we remain in the UK, subsidising the rest of the union, Scotland will continue to pour its surplus down the drain wasting our chance for greater prosperity.