The Scottish Government

I don't agree with immediate membership of the EU after becoming an independent country, I think we should suck it and see. I also don't agree with No.1 David Robertson's post when he says that for Scotland to join up and be told what to do from Brussels would be worse than our existing status quo, how can that possibly be the case when we would be on an equal footing as a sovereign state with the new United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland,and we would be negotiating our own deals as an independent nation with Brussels, instead of Scotland being told what to do by the English parliament of Westminster who in turn are being told what to do by Brussels, so how can the status quo be a better situation than having independence? I don't think he has thought his comment through properly.

#16 & #21. Andrew Cowe - Lanarkshire, you can write lengthy posts about a white paper or independence and show people that you can string a sentence together, but at the end of the day you are totally missing the point of a country becoming independent.
Time and again I read all this codswallop about the economy or the sums don't add up or will we pay a few pence more tax or will our country collapse or will we ever see our relatives again over the border etc, etc, etc, etc, I wish you would all grow up, and shut your stupid faces.
Scotland is an educated,intelligent, forward and outward looking (NOT PAROCHIAL) nation,very capable of running its own affairs as a self respecting independent country, END OF STORY!!!

A government that listens to the people? Hardly, when the majority of people in Scotland do not support any form of independence and do not want to even discuss the option of independence.

At present Scotland's people are sovereign and free. All independence will do is create a new political elite of idiots, the SNP being the perfect example of it. Why do we need to do this? Every day, Scots people are making decisions about their future. What positive differences will a vote for independence do for Scotland?

Nationalism is a scary belief that has born apartheid in South Africa, Nazism and the Holocaust in the 1930s and 40s, and segregation in the United States. We should embrace our differences within the United Kingdom, I being Scottish, my friends and wider family being English, Welsh and Northern Irish. Pluralism and unity is the only way forward in the 21st century. Across the world people are forging stronger links, and yet the idiots in the SNP want to see Scotland aborted from the rest of the United Kingdom.

Nationalism sees persons ideas, views and beliefs polarise to the extremes. What kind of guarantees can the nationalists give to the minorities of Scotland should it become independent, that they will be free? What about the Indians, the Pakistanis, the Bangladeshis, the Irish, Protestant Northern Irish, English, Welsh, and dare I say it the British? Not to mention Muslims, Protestants, Buddhists, and the Orange Order? Will they properly be respected? We can see on both sides of the border in Ireland that there has been a polarisation of beliefs, one in to a Protestant state, and the other into a Roman Catholic state, both who had the promise of protecting individuals basic rights. Poland claims to be a free independent country, but their ruling nationalists parties have purges against homosexuals. The SNP are very chummy with the Roman Catholic Church. Is this a taste of the Nationalist agenda they support? No abortion? No premarital sex? No contraception? AIDS? Gays not allowed to work?

At least the United Kingdom has guaranteed all these rights. What can the SNP do to guaratee these rights following a principle, based on the idea that everyone is Scots?

They will claim that they are a very modern party not dwelling on the past. They will no doubt criticise the Orange Order for celebrating the Battle of the Boyne in 1690, but let us not forget that each year they march through Stirling celebrating two battles against the English in 1297 and 1314. Don't tell me that nationalism is nothing more than an anti-English tirade.

Nationalism is very dangerous. Be careful.

[23], [24], [25] "Well said" says he who is currently drinking from a coffee mug carrying the words "Don't let the turkeys get you down" - constructive argument founded on a positive vision and a little common sense will win the debate in the end!

33. Stewart - Stirling
Friday, August 31, 2007 09:38
""...Don't tell me that nationalism is nothing more than an anti-English tirade...""

I could be unkind, but let me say that Middle Eastern nationalism or the extreme forms of Islamist nationalism tends to be anti-English and anti American I'll grant you, but ask the Asian, Eastern European, Italian or English members and MSPs of the SNP and you will be told to look up 'Civic/Civil nationalism', the founding precept of the French Republic and the US Constitution.

I.e. the state derives its legitimacy from the people, is inclusive and purely voluntary on the part of the people.

He-haw to do with the English.

Maybe you are confused between the government in London, which few in England hold in high regard, and 'the English'.

The fact that the UK parliament is swamped by English representation(85%) looking after English interests, while being entirely legitimate and laudable, is hardly good for the rest of us.

Well , great nations have thier own hostory and thier own country , India and pakistan had the same relationship as Scotland and England has , but Independence has given us something we would have never had that sense of our own country . for this there is no compromise .
I wish the same for you as I have lived with you people. I think scots deserve thier own Independent country to feel proud of .
Best of Luck . I thin being part of Euro- Union will make up for loss of Being with England . Bigger market and one curency.

# 30. JL - France and Edinburgh
Thursday, August 30, 2007 19:43

JL I get the impression, like many of our friends habitually domiciled south of Gretna, that Scots wishing to govern their own affairs are seen as an affront to England, who has been doing her best for, and even subsidising, those northern ingrates for centuries.

To set the record straight:
When Scotland 'agreed' to the provisions of the Treaty of Union, what it agreed to was to adjust the number of Peers and Members of Parliament representing Scottish constituences, adjurn its own parliament indefinitely, and have them upsticks to Westminster.

Leaving just about every other important Scottish State institution intact;
The Scottish Legal system, the Royal Burghs, The Scottish High Church, The Universities and Scottish education system, etc.

We accepted that the Scottish name should disappear in favour of a unionist North Britain.
The term South Britain does not appear to have carried the same weight.

That most celebrated son of Ireland the Noble Lord Wellington was he not the 'greatest living Englishman(south Briton)' after the passing of Admiral Lord Nelson.

So soon after the Union, Nelson still had the idea that England expected that every man would do his duty(even if he did come from North Britain)

C'mon Alec, you have picked a great team. Lets see our Saltire fly high and proud as a free nation.

35. livilion - livingston
Friday, August 31, 2007 10:52

I could accept the argument that their nationalism is based on French Republicanism in civic/civil nationalism, but what gets to me is the fact that these so called civic nationalists march through Stirling every year, commemorating the Battle of Stirling Bridge and the Battle of Bannockburn. This is very anti-English and anti-British. It does not celebrate Scottishness, it celebrates the fact that the Scots beat the English.

The other issue Scots should remember: What ever happens, should Scotland become independent, you will not lose your British citizenship. If you were born or are a British citizen, no government in Scotland or London can take that away from you.

This may give some comfort to those who fear, should it ever happen, that an independence referendum could ever be won by the nationalists. Your way of life does not need to end.