The Scottish Government

Paul Jonhson

Well said! It is refreshing to see someone putting forward some real statistics on a website littered with wild predictions.

No doubt you will incur the wrath of angry nationalists who will say 'oh aye but Scotland doesn't really gain anything' but that’s to be expected.

#347

I recall a conversation with an Aberdonian who was waxing lyrical about the scenery, buildings, social life etc in Aberdeen. I asked him why he was now working and living in Fife? He thought for a minute before replying, 'Because it's, (expletive deleted) cauld up there!'. suggest this is the opinion of a lot of Scots who have chosen to live where the sun shines brightly in warmer climes. Ask Sir Sean.

Far from being a poor relative I suggest you look at the where the potential for expansion in many areas is taking place. Financial, electrical power generation. Here is where its happening, despite the inept government.

The nationalists ask the unionists to state their case, so here's my contribution.

We currently have Scotland in the United Kingdom, which is:

a) 7th in the world by GDP per capita (above the likes of Germany, France and Japan and now also the USA)

b) 5th in the world by GDP per capita by consumption (comparing average living standards),

c) 5th in the world by total GDP (only topped by countries with considerably higher populations) and

d) 6th in the world by total GDP (calculating in the cost of living).

So it can be seen that the UK is one of the wealthiest economies in the world.

Furthermore, The UK is one of the permanent five veto-powers on the UN’s powerful Security Council, one of the ‘Big Four’ in the EU, a member of the G8 group of major economies and also sits at the top tables of the OECD, OSCE, NATO, the Commonwealth, the Council of Europe, the World Trade Organisation, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, making it one of the most powerful and influential countries in the world.

The UK is the EU's strongest major economy, has the EU's strongest military, is the primary link between the two largest blocs of the EU and the USA, home of one of the world's principal cultures, home of the world's financial capital, home of Europe’s largest stock exchange and one of the largest in the world, is the leading destination for inward investment into Europe, is second only to the USA globally, the UK is the second largest investor overseas with investments/acquisitions by UK companies almost quadrupling in the past ten years, the UK has the third largest number of companies in the Forbes 2000 list of the world’s biggest companies (more than Germany and France combined), has one of the lowest government debt levels in the EU…

And all with a population of just 60m. That’s about 1% of the world’s population!

Finally, unemployment in the UK, at 5.3%, is the lowest in 30 years. In Scotland, unemployment is at its lowest in 33 years.

However, the SNP wants to take Scotland out of this and instead make it:
The 54th largest economy in the world
The 112th largest population in the world
The 22nd largest economy in EU
The 20th largest population in the EU (above the likes of Cyprus, Luxembourg, Latvia, Estonia, Malta etc).

Such rankings will inevitably result in considerably less influence in the international organisations, councils and forums that set European and global economic, political and security strategies currently enjoyed as part of the UK.

Within the EU, the SNP wants to take Scotland out of this ‘Big Four’ member-state and instead seeks just 1.3% of the European Parliament vote – with even this % inevitably decreasing as more countries join.

Within the UN, having lost its place on the Security Council, an independent Scotland will only have its single vote in the General Assembly which only meets a couple of times a year.

Economically, the SNP relies heavily on oil revenues when reserves are dwindling fast. Even the current sky-high prices aren’t guaranteed as history shows. In a worst-case scenario of oil running out completely (oil market forecasts predict a 65-75% drop over the next ten years), there would be up to a 25% drop in national production with the loss of many billions in tax revenues, resulting in a combination of higher taxes/lower spending/greater borrowing.

Internationally, the SNP seeks independence so that Scotland will have its own voice in the world yet it can be seen that this will be just one voice among a very large number of other ‘small nations’, considerable quieter than it has now within the UK.

The one glaringly obvious problem with the current settlement is the complete lack of integrity shown by the Labour Party in its machinations to avoid its own law on donations. That Wendy Alexander has not already had to face arrest in itself says much about Labour's contempt for Scottish Law. The sad fact is she can continue to hide because of the way the law has been written.

The only way to break this cancerous link that is eating at the law of our land and the sovereignty of the people is to seek full independence so that Alexander and her ilk can no longer hide behind Westminster's coat tails and face due process like all and any citizen.

It may be a strange comparison to some, but one of the reasons for the fall of communism in eastern europe was that the people no longer believed in it. When an official in Moscow informed collective farmers several thousand miles away to harvest, they had no choice but to obey. The fact that the crops where not ready or had rotted made no difference. When the westminster collective increase interest rates to slow down an overheating southern economy this makes our rather tepid economy in the north even less inviting. It punishes us for others success/excess (whichever fits).
Im not envious, if money was my passion i'd no longer be living here,but still i must make a living. Id like to be able to afford to heat the house properly in winter, that would be nice!
All that oil and we're bloody freezing.
If the real power over us was held by us and we got the government we voted for i'd at least feel that i could take my gripes to my own people. Who knows they may even listen.
For now tho we have no real democracy, we get the govenment the south votes for. We even get told that Scots have taken control of westminster, strange how our fifty odd mp's can dictate to over five hundred english mp's?
Quite a feat that,if we're that strong a race it should be easy for us to shrug off our dependancy problem.
Maybe im behind the time's and democracy is no longer deemed important, or is it just north of the border that we dont care who runs our country? Well i for one bloody well care, please sort it out folk.

Re: RAD #345: The bit in your post I agreed with was your comments on Paul Morris!

For me the Union isn't about presenting a logical argument - its about how you 'feel'. I feel British & always will do no matter what the consequences of that might be in terms of taxes, wealth etc.

If you like, I see the Union flag & I feel something I don't feel when I see the flag of St George.

My support for the Union has nothing to do with doubting Scotland's ability to run its own affairs; I'm proud to be in the same country as you (& Wales & N. Ireland)

Which is why I've said all along if you don't feel British then vote SNP & break up the Union.

Its also why I would never choose to live outside of GB for any length of time - its my country & its where I belong!

Mike

Gordon Murray - Livingston, hello.

Has Devolution REALLY taken off in the UK? Firstly Northern ireland has just again received its Green Light after several years, Wales has a Assembly, while Scotland has a Parliament and England has nothing AT ALL.

To refer to your Quote, what mistakes will Scotland repeat? Maybe a great many, like every nation on this planet.

Can i raise the question. Where has ANY Pro-Union writer on these Forums said anything about Scottish People being incompetant??? Give me a good example of this.

I believe that Scotland could run its affairs in a good way if it became independent, but not in a way which justifies leaving the Union. The Union offers these things (Pros of Independence) but in a far better enviroment where we can cooperate far better as one Nation than 2-4.

I am surprised that the SNP leadership have not updated the pro-independence arguments in the light of devolution.

There is now a whole new reason for independence: that Scotland now has a better, modern parliament in which the principles, procedures and even the seating arrangements have been thought out to favour good practice rather than having evolved by too-little-too-late reforms grudgingly and reactively conceded.

If you list the issues in the recent election that lost the Labour led coalition support of formerly loyal voters,you can see that they are the result of a failure to differentiate from UK New Labour top-down party control using patronage, party whips and the royal prerogative to marginalise cabinet MP's and party.

Donald Dewar told me 50 years ago that a Home Rule parliament could be a model for reform of Westminster, and I think that this was as much in his mind as better governance for Scotland.

I wish I had asked him "What if Westminster didn't reform?"

Would he have said that "Scotland will be independent when people vote for it"?

#346: G Goodall
Why have so many Scots gone overseas?
Moreover, the ones who live overseas are more enthusiastic - perhaps because we understand what it means to live in independent (forward looking) nations - and want the same for our own.
In many cases, those of us who live overseas have also married overseas, etc, and are part of the social fabric of other countries. Our spouses/children are not readily welcome in the UK either.
As I also stated, one needs to look at the socio-economic development elsewhere to understand how and why Scotland is missing out and lagging behind too.
I can understand a social union with the rest of the UK - a Commonwealth perhaps - but cannot understand Scotland's continued status as a poor relative, where decisions are made outwith the country and not for the good of its citizens.
It seems Scotland does not want the Conservatives, meanwhile, Labour has had stewardship of Scotland for 50 years. One just has to look at the Labour benches at Holyrood and Westminister to see what that has delivered. Examine the situation in Lanarkshire/Glasgow, then look at the likes of Singapore - and all the city state has achieved without the resources Scotland enjoys. So, if Labour can't deliver, Conservatives are unwanted - who/what does that leave?
I appreciate my children being given opportunities and growing up in a "can do" society. Despite many achievements/resources, etc, Scotland at the moment still lacks aspiration, however, I can also see SNP has initiated a change there.
You state - "we have ambitions": at least the SNP are ambitious for Scotland, contrast that with aims of the unionist parties and one understands why membership of the SNP is growing and why Mr Salmond continues to enjoy his honeymoon period.
Further - "Trust us and you'll see". The SNP have no record in government, now they are asking to be judged on their achievements, etc - hence vote on Independence, not now, but 2010 when they have a record to stand on. Seems fair?
Meanwhile, Unionists have yet to explain the "Dividend".

#345

Good honest contribution. There were six of us to start with living in Scotland, four of whom decided to make their life overseas. There are now only four of us surviving of whom one lives in Scotland and three live overseas and have no intention of returning. Guess who is most enthusiastic about independence! The ones who live overseas!! Surprise, Surprise.

If independence is good for the Scottish people then I would have to be convinced, not the exiles, as I at least have a vote. If the current administration can do little more than complain about being downtrodden by Westminster then they do not, in my opinion, make a case for independence.

Let's see what's on offer. 'Trust us, we'll see you okay'? sorry, but that's a joke!

'We have the most ambitious plan to reduce carbon emissions by 80% by 2050?'

'We have ambitions to reduce primary school classes to 18?'

'We have ambitions to provide free education to all at HE level?'

No plans in place as to how these targets can be achieved, but they expect the public to swallow the bait.

When a high percentage of the population have paid contributions to the State for NHS and Pensions it would be reasonable to ask where and how the finance for these provisions will be raised. We keep hearing how well other similar countries are doing but fail to mention the higher income tax and VAT regimes in place to pay for these benfits in these places.

A little bit of honesty might go down well with the electorate.

We also note that Sir Sean has moved from Spain to the Carribean but still supports independence for the country he has deserted.