The Scottish Government

321. Graeme - Glasgow
Armed forces in an independent Scotland is an issue that the SNP will have to address seriously before any referendum takes place.

Switzerland with a present population maybe 50% more than ours has maintained its neutrality for hundreds of years, with a well-trained and well-equipped army / air force and even navy (a few patrol boats!), though it has been reduced in size and emphasis over modern years. Liechtenstein population around 40,000 is, or was, a protectorate of Switzerland.

Israel goes without saying for armed forces, with a population maybe 20% over ours. Hopefully our needs would not be as great.

Just because Scotland is independent does not mean that we can not be part, if acceptable, of the future "British" armed forces, that's what treaties are for. If this was the way forward, there is no reason why the effectiveness and size of the current British armed forces need be reduced, indeed, maybe our own Ministry of Defence in future might see fit to retire old fuel-leaking Nimrods and equip all personnel with effective flak jackets and other equipment rather than saving a few pounds in exchange for a few lives.

Or we might form our own treaties with Norway and others.

But the question does have to be addressed: what is the future of our armed forces?

"I’ll leave you by saying once again that it would be a waste to through away 300 years of history, common values and beliefs"

A rather strange quote Craig(320)which you seem to be fond of saying can I ask you why again?
How would Scotland in becoming Independent that our history would be wasted?

What should our common beliefs and values change, can you tell me how?
My wives English would Scotland governing herself change things? would I not be allowed to visit my in-laws? or watch "Eastenders" ? what's to waste.

Well Craig, still awaiting your answer.

Regards

Kev.

For as long as but 100 of us remain alive, we shall never fall under English rule

Re: kev - Edinburgh "Whats to waste" question.

Can't speak for Craig, Kev, but for me what's at stake here is the ending of a Union that saw the people's of these Islands perform the best they have ever done or are ever likely to.

Just some examples: the UK (not England)defeated Bonaparte, led the world's industrial revolution & stood alone against Hitler during the darkest days of WW2.

Please do not throw that away just because in doing so you could still watch East Enders!

Merry Christmas to one and all, and here's to the death of the Union. Solidarity to all Patriots. Change is coming, and its going to be surprisingly great.

As an English nationalist and supporter of independence I support the ultimate SNP goal of independence, even if it means the traversal of a stormy sea when it comes to English-Scottish relationships for the next few decades. Surely we are at a point now where our nations would be better off apart than together?

The Oil Majors exploit Scottish oil and then use their lobbying influence to divert tax hikes from corporate taxes that would affect them to domestic taxes like the consistent rise in fuel duty that we've seen over the past 30 years despite the oil wealth lying in UK waters - which ultimately doesn't benefit anyone but the fatcats in The City.

Then we have the money spent per capita in the UK. Whether Scotland's per capita cost is higher than England's, Wales' or N.I's is not the issue, but the issue is that a disparity exists! Per capita spending should be equal throughout this supposedly unified country - if the government truly believed in Unionism then they would equalise per capita spending across the Home Nations. Of course, if we were all legally separate nations, then England and Scotland could enjoy spending more tailored to their individual national needs and there would be no more bickering over spending more in one country than another.

And of course, we come to the issue of Parliaments. Surely the nation is in a state of disarray when the largest constituent nation cannot have it's own Parliament, but the three smaller nations may? If the government actually believed in a strong Union, they would not have started to devolve, but if they actually believed in devolved Britain, they would've given autonomous powers to England as well! Make up your minds! It just goes to prove that this government is absolutely useless and had no clear intentions from the beginning of it's election campaign in '97!

An independent Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England would result in a stronger British Isles.


PS: There'd be more chance of a Home Nations footie tournament being reinstated, too, which is always good news!

Everyone whos says 'government# notice that you refer to LABOUR. Labour are inept, they are causing problems, not the Union. Like it has been stated in countless articles and numerous messages on this forum you can see that the Union is a great benifit to all.

Just because the Labour government doesn't know how to wield such a powerful force doesn't justify breaking it apart.

Hi Mike, fair point but why do you believe that with ending of the Union,

" perform the best they have ever done or are ever likely to."

We would suddenly stop performing?.
A tad backward thinking no?

Your point about Napoleon is a bit big headed no? I think the rest of Europe and Russia contributed to the demise of Bonaparte.
Likewise I think in WW2 Scotland would have fought with the same contribution wither part of the union or not, also Btw a think the Americans and Russian's played a good part as well.

But lastly I think its time to get a grip this empire rubbish and stiff upper lip gets on my goat, Europe is now the most stable set of nations of earth, we are very very unlikely to have to wade into a European war like before in the age of empire's and Monarchy, so you do not require the comfort blanket of the UK.
Lets move forward and stop dreaming of the "golden" age.
And who's to say we would stop supporting our close neighbours England in any future conflicts anyways?

Thou as proved with Iraq an Independent Scotland would at least have a choice of wither to embark on another illegal crusade or not.

Lastly your Union has contribute greatly to many of the worlds great atrocity's and perhaps best consigned to the dust bin of history.

Just a some example's (and theirs many)

India,The new World, Slavery, and the worlds first concentration camp's.

Regards

Hugh 327.

Very good post btw, perhaps Craig and Mike would care to comment?