The Scottish Government

It seems bizarre to me that the EU could possibly be seen as more of a "burden" to Scotland than the union with the rest of the UK. After all how many scots soldiers have lost their lives because of EU foreign policy? (none) How many jobs have been destroyed by the obsession of the centre with the south-east? It seems clear to me that the UK is the problem not the EU.

However, i feel this is very much a post-independence debate (Scotland's future in Europe), as attempting to tease out divisions in the independence movement now is thoroughly counter-productive. Personally I favour a Republic within the EU but I am quite prepared to start that debate after working towards independence as presented currently by the leadership (i.e. a Commonwealth Realm with the Queen as Head of State). Eventually these sort of strategic choices (EU membership - yes/no, republic/monarchy etc ...) must be put to the people in a post-independence Scotland.

For Independence this must be the choice of the Scottish people to vote on, however with Labour's Anti English Stance under Blair and Brown, these issues can be brought to the fore and utilised. With more English anger, Scotland can go Independent with ease.

Mike 475 writes.

If Scotland leaves the Union then Wales will surely follow. As for Northern Ireland - the Unionists there have been sold (by both Labour & the Tories) down the river long ago & will be lucky not to find themselves in a united Ireland some time soon.

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So Mike a rather selfish attitude! its alright for you to keep your union but Ireland is not? you dont mind keeping this isle united but Ireland in your words
"will be lucky not to find themselves in a united Ireland ".


So your fine with your sense of "national identity" but you frown at other's!

Btw britain is not a country but Scotland and Ireland are, you can learn to respect that and you can still bring out the flags on St George's day.

Regards

481. Mike King
At the moment, whether Scotland is in the UK or out of the UK, it is, and presumably would be in the EU, so status in the UK is irrelevant, except that it adds an unneccessary and unrepresentative layer to our negotiations within the EU.

However, if the UK were to leave the EU, and the choice were between Scotland more strongly devolved / federated within an independent UK, or an independent Scotland but within the EU, the choice would be a lot more difficult - and I have no certain answer. Though my heart would still be for an independent Scotland - my head might tell me otherwise.

I'm sure the EU has great ideals and great idealists. Unfortunately the way it implements these ideals (or the non-idealist people who implement the directives) discriminates heavily against small business, and even against individuality. It's all "harmonisation" by enforcement (and very high unbearable costs), and in my opinion, is bound to fail and fall apart within a couple of decades at most. Dissimilar people cannot be forced together too closely. Even the French and Germans don't seem to like the EU any more. Vive le difference!

474. Dave Eastabrook - Largs, Ayrshire

Re "But my preferred option in ascending order is still full independence - and independence outside the EU as the top one."

Dave, you know you won't ever get your top preference so wouldn't a federal UK be better than Scotland out of the UK but in Europe?

Hi there people of all opinion.
i am here to say that EVERY nation on earth has the right to govern itself when its people so wish.
the sovereignty of a nation lies solely in its folk therefore when the people of this nation decide they want Independence then it will occur.
people can post opinion,that is why this site is here but i note that some writers imagine that Ireland freeloaded from the UK,which is myth.
you may as well say the UK ripped off half the world,which of course it did,but that only creates more resentment and does not either contribute to a measured debate,nor keep to the point of this forum,which is to GAUGE OPINION ON SCOTLAND gaining full independence and taking a seat among EQUALS on the world stage.
ok so famous people live in other nations and want to see their nation free,so what? it is no reason to mock them.the next time you turn on your Japanese computer you might want to think about who made it.
unionist people love the union ok
those who love independence have the right to argue for it.
that is what freedom means.
let the people who write here put their view forward in a way that is not mere snideness
polite words go farther.
unionist politics have failed the nation
if not there would be no child poverty after hundreds of years of union politics,and think on the fact that the people who try to stop Independence do so out of hatred or jealousy or they poo poo the minority nationalist politics unfairly.
give the man a few years you might find he gets things right.
if every person voted unionist tomorrow what would the nation return to?
old tried failed politics that done little to end the obvious divisions in the nation.
look at the nation you live in
is it equal
is it free
is it fair
is it moving to where you want it to go
people who want Independence are not nationalist
they might just be people who think the nation has something to offer the world.
if you cant believe that why bother to post a message?
freedom will come when people want it.
i think the nation can be free.

#478 Kevin O'Leary

Well done Kevin, you really have a grasp of the facts, NOT.

When did you get your 'freedom' from the UK, 1920? (ish). When did you become a celtic tiger? 1990 (ish). Having used the UK for 70 years to provide migrant work you joined the EU and thanks to the grants you got for being a peasant economy managed to create a modern manufacturing / service sector. We managed that without the seperation. In fact we've devoloped more countries around the world than you've had hot dinners, as well as looking after ourselves.

Like Sir Sean and the rest of the overseas well - wishers, you look after your own place of abode, we'll look after ours!!

Here in Ireland we did not ned Oil but we are just a small nation of 4 million/Scots who oppose Independence have for years bowed to Westminster rule for far too long.Stop doing what your masters tell you to do fown in London.Independence for Scotland is coming and it is copming fast so watch out all you Anti- Independencers.

475. Mike King
I think your posting does sum up the whole conversation, there's nothing wrong with nationalism in itself, and it boils down to what we feel is our national identity to feel nationalist about.

It's funny really how any debate and disagreement could be turned, with the will, into total harmonious agreement and accord about general principles! It's just in the detail ...

473. davie - land of milk and honey.

Thanks for the reply. Not hoping to win that particular battle, just wanting someone to challenge Mr Holmes' "analysis" of the situation.