The Scottish Government

In my humble opinion its high time some severely misled "unionists" should pick up their history books and read the real history of Scotland,not the Anglo British clap trap we've been fed in our schools since the union.
To express my entire views here would take far too much time,but suffice to say,the last "English" invasion wasn't in 1745/46 but in 1919 when 10,000 English troops were put into Glasgow with their tanks and machine guns etc to quell the so called "Red Clydeside" riots and weren't a kick in the shirt off using them. The Scottish troops were locked in their barracks so that they wouldn't get involved on behalf of their own kith and kin. Now wasn't that a great thanks from a London government to Scotland whose people had given approximately 20% of the UK 1st world war casualties with 10% of the UK population in the preceding 1914-1918. Bet you didn't get that at school unionist people ??.
Teach our kids the real Scottish history in schools,not lies and not slanted in any direction,just the truth. Scotland would be independant in a generation.
Finally ,I agree with David Robertson of Inverness. If we do achieve independance then our relationship with europe should be re-examined, I sometimes wonder at Ireland, fought for so long to gain her independance from London misrule then handed her lot to Brussels ?? That decision may well come back to bite her in the backside yet.
Personally I'd prefer the Norwegian model. On our own,minding our own business and being friendly with the neighbours....including the English.
If you think you live in a "free" country at present....dream on.....
DAVY

As an Englishman who has chosen to live in Shetland, and who previously lived for many years in Scotland, I have mixed feelings. I firmly believe in self determination and as such would not argue against independence if that is what the majority want (and equally feel for the Tibetans and Kurds amongst many others).
Here in Shetland our history is different to the rest of Scotland - the islands were effectively mortgaged to Scotland some 500 years ago so there is no heritage of kilts, bagpipes or other similar tourist trappings. The people here have never spoken gaelic and have no wish to do so. The local dialect contains the remains of Norn - an ancient Scandanavian language - mixed with English and Scots.
I belive that in a referendum the majority in Shetland would vote against independence (there is a local feeling amongst some that rule from Edinburgh is as irrelevant to us as rule from London!) - but should it occur can we then vote for independence from Scotland?

When I come home now I cant help but notice the change in Scotland. So far the SNP have invigorated scotland, I have no Idea whats next but we now have a council of economic advisors (thought we probably already had one)looking into scotlands economic developement. Why didnt Labour do this in their 8 years of power. Truth is an increase in scotlands economic performance would lead to increases in Scottish taxes going to westminster for the benefit of Westminster with nothing more coming back to scotland, It would be hard to argue against Independence then and Mc-connel and co were told to keep Scotland as is. Weve had Our poor farmers struggle with the F+M restrictions from DEFRA but with no government support, at least these DEFRA powers should be devolved to stop this riduculous situation, scotland pays taxes to support DEFRA but DEFRA only supports English farmers in time of crisis, where are the labour politicians in scotland now were is their voice, the Welsh labour mps are furious. Ours are keeping their mouths shut. As for the national grid going to charge more for remote sited offshore wind and wave powered electricity, this has to be a joke. Are they going to build a new nuclear powered generator in the heart of London. All existing nuclear powered generators are in remote areas for good reason, do they have to pay an extra charge??? So far the SNP has fought for scotlands voice on all of these issues, Swinney even managed to get 1 billion of scots taxes back from the treasury, this was denied to the useless Labour numpties we had before, they either didnt fight hard enough, good enough or just did what they were told in interests of their carear rather than the interests of their voters. This would be the same for Tories and the Lib dems. Independance cant come quick enough for me, but in answering the the economic question perhaps it would be more prudent to increase scotlands economic performance first to increase confidence in the New Scotland before Independance.

I love Scotland, I wish you independence and a little more nice weather.

In my humble opinion the UK government lost a' competence under blair and have never regained it.What do we get from oor gordon?Just mair broon stuff from a hapless government.Long enough we've gone cap in hand to Westminster.Enough,if we're to get on in the world it's time to scrap this pointless union,which should never have been at a'.

The people above who dream about this anti Englishness and their rather inventive notion that being pro Scottish relies on being anti English are both wrong and missing the point.

My close relatives are English, and I love them. I also happen to think highly of English and English people, and always have.

I happen to not have a similar mind for the 'British' system of government as you will have guessed.

This is not a crime to be Independently minded, and it isn't an exclusive position reserved only for Scots who have voted SNP either.

Have any of you who believe that Scottish people are somehow anti English ever read any of the Daily Telegraph editorials that are for English only editions?

Try that one.

By all means consider the recent election win that saw Labour booted deservedly out of power as a mere glitch, or as one of you stated "a protest vote", however the Labour party as a whole look unelectable in any future Scottish parliament, and indeed were far too scared to go to the whole of the UK in what is called a general election.

Their antics out of power in Scotland as well as the ones in minority UK power under Gordon Brown have been clownish and very amateurish.

If Labour believed they could win an election, they would have gone for that.

As to the union, a 'National Conversation' and indeed all the other debates that consider the future of Scotland are only feared by Labour types, particularly the redundant MWP's who are in something called the Scottish Office which is a mouthpiece for Westminster in Scotland rather than representing Scottish interests in Westminster.

The whole idea of eventual Independence for Scotland will come from the electorate being more sophisticated and informed, and of course cringing in disbelief at the efforts of our 'Scottish" press (as many people inclusive of opposition voters have done since May).

You see, the press have led themselves down a garden path that they will find difficult to return from, they are a disgrace.

We ned to talk about our collective futures, and I know the politicians who are scared by the very thought.

Gus MacRury

183. Mike - Shetland
Saturday, October 20, 2007 10:44

Shetland having no heritage of kilts, bagpipes or other similar tourist trappings?

To be Scottish you reckon we ought to be running around in kilts, swearing in Gaelic, and blawing our bagpipes then?

Is that what you expected, your own wee island Brigadoon?
I might argue that neither has.... pick any Scottish central belt town or city.

The people here have never spoken gaelic and have always had very limited means to aquire it if they wanted to.

The local dialect contains remains of Norn mixed with English and Scots, German, Italian, French, Hindu, you name it they're all in there.


If you do live in Shetland then why not look into whatever became of the Shetland Movement, and also into it's relationship with the Scottish nationalists?

188. Gordon Murray - Livingston

"The people here have never spoken gaelic"

That's a common misconception. At it's hight, Gaelic was spoken over most of Scotland.

Hello Craig

You quote me as saying that Scotland is a 2nd class nation because it has no effective expression for its political will.

Nice try Craig - if I truly believed Scotland was a 2nd class nation we would not be in disagreement would we - and you could happily continue with yours 'womens guild' weekend hobby kind of nationalism.

You support Scotland in the same way as you might support a hobby like stamp collecting. You like to do it, but if it gets too serious, or gets taken too seriously you can always stop.

It is precisely because I believe Scotland is a first class nation that I am campaigning for independence

You use my example of asking 100 people in the street what nationality they think themselves and end '...if pressed would also say British'. Perhaps, but only because politically we are shoehorned into that position. If you press the 100 a bit harder and said 'Devolution isn't working - you have to choose between independence and reverting to direct rule', I think you would get a resounding vote for independence.

If you are so confident that independence does not have support presumably you are in favour of a referendum ???

Perhaps you would favour a referendum over the whole UK ? After all, in your eyes the people in the South of England should have as much of a say on Scotland as those of us who actually live here.

As I have already stated the 'Union' is not so popular that the Scots are prepared to dilute their demand for ever more powers - that will ultimately lead to de facto independence. I've never heard any serious Scottish politician say 'Oh we can't ask for that power in case it undermines the Union'. This debate is about what is best for Scotland, not what is best for the Union or your chums in Westminster.

You question the idea that an independent Scotland would still be British.

France and Belgium speak the same language but are independent of each other. They are also both still European, and have not descended into a warlike state. This 'the end of the world is nigh' nonsense just does not stack up. It's also pretty childish and 'niaive'.

I was slightly taken aback by your response to my accusation that Unionists are xenophobic and racist.

Rather than denying it you make a spirited defence of the indefensible, by saying a lot of Scots are xenophobic too, and that it is 'a good thing'.

It is probably true that some Scots are isolationist like you, but I do not think it is a majority. After all, if they all thought like you surely they would be Unionist - clearly they are not.

Your views and the views of fellow Unionists would be far more at home in Nazi Germany where you could happily have a go at Wops, Wogs, Blacks, Jews, and all other non-Arians (in your case non-British).

You also accuse me of psycho-analysing you. Well look at it this way - I'm not charging you - it's all part of the service - though I do think you would benefit from some professional counselling, particularly after we get independence.

You finish by harking back to the May election as some sort of aberration. People vote for all sorts of reasons but clearly people could have been under no illusion what the SNP stands for? And lets face it - the voters were not put off by that.

If the SNP had won another 13% or so we would not be having this debate now, we would be independent, and thanks to people like you support for independence grows stronger every day.

If you think things will ever revert to the old status quo then it is you who are monumentally niaive.

Cheers

Though I'm not Scottish or British, i feel that the people of Great Britain should put aside their historical differences and united together to face the challenges of the future. Together Scots,English,Welsh and Irish ruled 1/4 of the world and became the most powerful nation on earth. Being united, Britain has withstood many challenges and survived. A single stick may be weak but together in a bunch they are strong.