The Scottish Government

Having been a Nationalist all my life,it now seems more possible that I will see independence in my lifetime, but I would rather that be outside the EU. We are, with the help of Mr. Brown and his ilk, being mugged by Brussels.
Alex Salmond would perhaps be wise to consider the possibility that many thousands of Scots voted for his party with their hearts, but now that he is in a position to become "dangerous" will next time vote with their heads. Here's one who hopes he gets it right

Can we start from simple principles?

What is independence and from whom?

I live in St Andrews, can I have independence for North East Fife? If the case for independence is moral, then surely the moral case is that whenever a plurality in ANY location vote for independence they can have it?

If not, is the argument about size, but that it is a pragmatic argument not a moral one. Are we really asking what is the optimum split between centralised and decentralised government. The whole issue around the EU that excites people is really part of this. Do we need another tier of government? Why are some decisions best taken in Scotland and others not?

Why not regionalise Scotland. Give full tax raising powers to the various parts.

If we say it has to be a nation recognized by history. What if I argue for the kingdom of Fife or Strathclyde.

Ireland has been mentioned many times. How many people know anything about health care in Ireland or welfare? There is very little compared to here. The tax rates are much lower because there is MUCH less social welfare. Is this being advocated? Not by anyone I see here.

Irish history is very interesting. During the founding of the free state, there was a mass exodus of protestants, religious clensing before it was termed so. You might argue they were not Irish but they were born there and lived there all their lives. Who would the independent supporters class as Scots? Anyone who moves here, anyone who lived here, anyone who was born here, anyone who wants, anyone whose parents were born here?

Most of the independence advocates make a moral case for independence. Freedom above all but in the end they resort pragmatic (economic) rationals for independence. This is because we are not oppressed or denied our "rights", they are really debating the practical merits of how we should be governed.

If so then I would argue the notion of some invisible line drawn on land fought over for 100's of years, agreed by kings, lords etc is a poor place to de-mark any government territory. I would rather see much more devolved government and less of it in total.

As a moral argument, the UK is a self contained island. I feel affinity with people due to language and culture from various parts of it. My connections are as strong within Scotland as within the UK. I do not wish to be split apart based on lines on maps.

Even Henry McLeish backs the national conversation, and now his former allies are telling him to leave Labour and join the SNP!

No wonder Brown's in a panic trying to revive the constitutional review he so recently downgraded.

When Scotland becomes independent and writes her own constitution, the very first article should state that sovereignty lies with us, the Scots people. There can be no room for ambiguity: there will be no place for an executive heredity monarchy, nor an overbearing parliament.

An independent Scotland will have a fantastic opportunity to try something new: to be a truly participatory democracy where any informed citizen is able to take part in the governing process. We have the chance to recreate the sort of public participation in government they have in Switzerland where the people, not the politicians, have the final say on any matter.

I would love to see a Scotland which regularly consults her people through the use of referenda, initiatives and petitions.

It has always been in Scotland's political tradition that power comes from the people, not from their rulers. With independence, we will finally have the opportunity to make "sovereignty of the people" a practical reality.

I like the way the Scottish Government is bringing this out into the open. Everyone on line has the opportunity to converse. I will listen and learn more before giving an opinion

#505 Trevor Switschew

Why is it that people say that Scotland NOW has a new found enthusiasm and confidence in itself now that we have a MINORITY nationalist government? If you need a posturing buffoon like our current First Minister to broadcast our pride in country and nationhood there is something wrong with you!

I have NEVER had any problem with anyone in ANY country in the world in promoting our country or its distinctive difference from England, Wales or Ireland (North or South).

I was born and raised in Glasgow with a 'guid Scots tongue in ma heid' so was able to travel where I wanted and get by with the help of the local population to obtain the services it needed. All that was required was an appreciation of their customs and traditions. If I respected their's they respected mine. That is why SCOTLAND is already established as an definitive entity in the world.

SNP will not improve our standing anywhere, the work has already been done. If all we can do is look for points of dispute then we are in trouble!!

Why don't they just get on with the job of governing and demonstrate how much better they can do the job! It says little for the current administration that they have to go back 15? years when the Conservatives ran the UK to find figures worse than their control of the prison population in the 9 MONTHS they have had in power.

Cut the slogans and buying up votes in marginal constituencies and govern for the electorate.

Not only would independence be good for Scotland, it would also be good for Anglo-Scottish relations by removing the source ofconflicts in terms of finance and democratic deficits amonst other things.

503. PMK - Ayrshire

RE: If you think our American friend Mr Forrester (#497)is "interfering in the internal politics of Scotland", surely those posting from elsewhere in the UK are doing exactly the same?

As one of those posting from "elsewhere", despite suggestions from some nationalists on this board that I shouldn't, I feel I must respond to your comment by pointing out that as someone born & currently living in the UK I am more effected by the movement for Scottish independence than people not from or living in the UK.

Your own posting indirectly acknowledges this point by your comment “elsewhere in the UK” - this cannot be applied to 497. J.W. Forrester - United States.

For the record, I have no problem with him/her commenting but its clearly factually incorrect to think he’s as effected as me.

Those nationalists on this board who’ve objected to the UK involving itself in Iraq presumably DO have a problem with American’s involving themselves with the UK’s affairs.

I look forward to them supporting the comments from 499. Not Another one - Fife!!

#502 and #503

I am aware that when Daily Telgraph readers contacted American voters to urge them to vote against Bush at the last presidential elections in that country they were quickly given the heave. Perfectly justified on the part of the Americans, none of our business who gets elected in the USA.

Mr Forrester claimed to speak for 24 million Americans in supporting Scottish Independence, a position I find hard to swallow. This forum is apparently for a Conversation with the Scottish people not for those people round the world who have no detailed knowledge of the financial systems needed to provide our social infrastructures.

My comments relate to issues on the ground and are not based on 'pie in the sky' beliefs of persons who do not live here. I do not not read all the postings but I would say the same to postings from England, Ireland, Wales .....

It's interesting to me why the there is such a divide where people support the notion of Scotland being fully independent as a nation governing itself and others in contrast want more powers devolved to Scotland but want to remain in the union. Where I live in Glasgow most people are opposed to Scottish independence yet in more rural areas of Scotland such as the Highlands and even the capital city Edinburgh there is more stronger support for independence. Why is this the case that the majority of people living in Scotland's largest city do not want independence where a larger percentage of the populations in other major Scottish cities do want it. There is a wide range of evidence supporting this view for the reason that in the May 2007 scottish parliamentary elections only one SNP candidate won a parliamentary seat that being Nicola Studgeon as well as SNP gaining a significant minority of council seats. In contrast Labour is the biggest political party in Glasgow. But why is this the case is it that although Glasgow is strategically important to Scotland that many regarded as a major British city where it is ahead of other larger cities such as Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester. How can Scotland become independent if around two thirds don't support the cause?
Personally I am not oppossed to independence but I believe that Scotland's not ready for full independence instead I want more devolved powers given to Scotland but I also want more powers given to the city of Glasgow because without the city's existence Scotland would not be the same.