The Scottish Government

In answer to Davie of Cheshire,missive 126.

Hell Davie

You say 'Scots have consistantly under-utilised the ability of the Parliament to date'.

Yes, but bear in mind, the Parliament has hitherto been controlled by a Unionist Labour party. Also the parliament is beholden to Westminster for its authority and it's budget. 'Holding the purse strings' is a fairly strong disincentive to doing anything radical.

Your diatribe about the SNP is utter nonsense - the fact is we need to end budgetry dependency for a start to make a real difference. Scotland also needs control over a number of other areas to truly take an independent line from the rest of the UK.

Nationalism is about taking real power back to the people of Scotland not flags and singing 'Flower of Scotland'. If thats all you think it is you are a poor deluded fool.

You say we should ditch the nationalists in favour of 'any other party infavour of someone identifying and tackling the real problems....' The tragedy is that none of the other parties are in a position to deal with Scotlands unique problems of poverty and deprivation. The political system prevents any of the British parties giving Scottish problems the real priority they need.

You suggest we just have to wait for a British parties priorities to coincide with Scotlands - we don't, we have the option to change the structure and give Scotland its' own voice again.

You mock the concept of 'Independence in Europe'. Don't you understand, the Scots would much rather share power with the EU, than continue to play to the Westminster tune and be treated like a poor 'idiot' cousin.

You betray the fact that you dislike Europe and the EU, whereas the Scots as a whole abhor this British separatist view. The Scots would welcome a more productive relationship with Europe, which you Unionists tend to fear.

When are you Unionists going to get it through your thick skulls - the British Empire is gone. Britain is no better than any other country in Europe. Can you not just settle for treating other countries, including Scotland with respect. The Scottish nation as a whole are sick of it, Europe is sick of it - the whole damn world is sick of your xenophobic bile.

You ask why Scots living in England or the EU shouldn't be part of the decision regarding independence - I am not opposed to this, but I think you would find that the vast majority of the 20 million in the Scottish diaspora would support an independent Scotland.

Nor should you assume you have to be born in Scotland or have Scottish parents to have the right to participate. Some of the strongest Scottish nationalists I know now living and voting in Scotland, were originally born and bred in the south of England.

They too share our hatred of this 'Britain is best' philosophy that clearly turns you on so much.

You say that the nations of Britain have '...so much more in common than we have against'. We do have a lot in common, but the other countries of the EU have a lot in common as well. Having a 'lot in common' does not mean you give up the right to governing your own country!

I and the majority of Scots do not have in common with you this love of all things British - we would be more comfortable independent and free to respect our neighbours in Europe than despise them as you clearly do. Push comes to shove, the Scots will vote for their nation and independence rather than any outdated notion of the Union and 'being British'. It is you that are naive if you think the Scots are going to put Britain first. The latest election result proves that they won't.

142. gavin thompson - dunfermline

In reply:

Very well written Gavin!
I couldn't agree more with your points raised. I too know many, many supporters of Scottish independence who are not born and bred 'Scots' - they are however, Scottish citizens and can see for themselves the benefits that independence would bring to our country.
Independence has nothing to do with creed or origin, history or hatred and everything to do with the future well being and economic growth of our country and everyone who lives and votes here.

Some simple questions in an attempt to regain focus on the question. Independence - good or bad.

Q1 - What is likely to be better for the Scottish Economy?

A. An independent Scottish Government with fiscal policies focussed on the particular requirements of the Scottish Economy?
B. A UK Westminster Government with no real regard for Scotland, and a fiscal policy focussed on middle England - where the votes come from!

Q2 - What would be better for Scottish business?

A. An independent Scottish Government with the ability to create a business friendly environment in Scotland, and to promote and support what is left of Scotish Industry.
B. A UK government that will stifle growth in Scotland in favour of growth in middle england every time (it's where the votes come from!).

Q3 - What is better for Scottish self belief, motivation, pride and the removal of dependency culture

A. Scottish Independence - akin to growing up and taking responsibility for your own actions.
B. Maintaining a second class role in a downward spiralling "union", and getting what is rightfully ours in the form af a handout. Akin to remaining a disinterested teenager with no purpose, self respect or prospect for fulfillment.

Q4 - What is better for Scotland's "defence" needs

A. An independent Scottish Government which could decide what kind of weaponry was stationed on Scotland soil, and what kind of wars Scottish soldiers should get involved in.
B. A UK Government that regularly bankrupts itself, and kills its own and other nations citizens in pursuing pointless foreign aggression, based on lies and the hangover of Empire.

If you answered mostly A's - there is hope for you and therefore hope for us all.

Mostly B's - what time is Tiffin at the Polo club?

129 Cheshire

"129. Davie - Cheshire
Wednesday, September 26, 2007 18:34

Ref: 128 below...

"We have been inept, doesn't mean to say we will continue to be and it really doesn't mean that you have to have "Independence" to achieve that. "

Yawn!, horses for courses, dont rock the boat, it will be all right on the night, w'll get there in the end, same old,

Get a grip Davie, its time to grow up, take a chance, stop being so negative.

You state "but the biggest force preventing Scotland moving forward is NOT the union...its the people" true to an extent but the Union is now holding back Scotland.

You've lived to long down south son new Labour is the same animal as the tories and they aint wanted up here.

Be positive, and when your at it try and list the benefit's of this union to the people of Scotland, well can you?

Before anyone asks - I don't regard my previous Q&A post as anti English.

I would consider it to be pro Independent Scottish Government over UK Westminster Government.

My references to middle England is in the context of UK Government policy making.

134. Gordon Murray - Livingston.


Good Post Gordon

Another question for those who would have us believe that Independence would be some kind of tragedy.

Out of all of the multitude of Commonwealth countries who have souht and gained independence from Britain since the days of Empire - how many have asked to get back in?

Can it possibly be that looking after your own affairs is preferable to having someone else (who may not have your best interests at heart) doing it for you?

"18. J. Docherty - Ayr
Tuesday, August 28, 2007 14:14

I feel a point that is being missed in a lot of the discussion on independence is the satisfaction that would be achieved by Scots in having their country recognised as an entity by the rest of the world instead of as at present being assumed to be a part of England. The fact is that foreigners referring to the UK speak of England (although the B.B.C. always translates as "Britain" or "United Kingdom"). The other fact is that the Diplomatic Service, Civil Service and Military higher echelons when abroad also refer to "England" when speaking of Britain or UK. Little wonder foreigners have no knowledge of Scotland as an entity or as a country. Scotland can exist and prosper as an independant nation, of that there is no doubt but in the words of the song "we must rise now and be a nation again" and be recognised by the world."

I agree, as the partner of a forigener and widly travelled wth many international friends i find this the most fustrating thing. Being asked where in england scotland is? or the queen of england?

The worst of it was when i took young girl guides abroad they were attacked by another group of teenagers because they thought we were english, unpon explain that we were in fact Scottish, they apolgised. As they say, actions speak louder than words.

Do the English people actually know ehere Scotland is. If the question was put to them Do you want to give Scotland independance i'm sure the answer would be an emphatic YES. We seem to be tackling this from the wrong angle. We should be in England and Wales canvasing support for Scottish Independance. Get them to put pressure on their MPs'. Why should Scotland be lorded over by a morally bankrupt government whether it be Liberal, Labour or Tories.

Hi Gavin I told you I would get back to you.

It’s been a while since I was on this site so I though that I would go through some of your ramblings again just to remind myself what you had been saying. I must say that I found this part quite entertaining: 'You would still be Scottish and British, but political control would have switched completely from Westminster to Holyrood. All it would mean is that you celebrate your Britishness in the same way you have hitherto celebrated your Scottishness, that is in a non-political way'.

To be honest I can see where you’re coming from. You believe, it would seem, that post 1707 Scotland ceased to exist. I disagree. After the Treaty of Union Scotland did not disappear. We did not become a footnote in history. We were, as I have previously said, absorbed into a larger and more powerful body within which were retained our 'uniqueness'.

In a sense Scotland never really ceased being a nation. Indeed, most still considered Scotland a nation but our nationalism was fused with a form of Britishness to create Scottish Unionism. In essence we were a nation which was (and is) part of a bigger nation. However, for the life of me I cannot see the Britain as I know it surviving post-independence. Surely you can accept that?

And please don’t be so naive. You know as well as I do that all Britons would eventually diverge along different paths until we reached the point when all of our shared customs and histories became inconsequential. We would all just be neighbours smiling kindly, exchanging a few nice words here and there while watching suspiciously from a far to see what that ‘lot’ next door were getting up to. And if you think am being a tad cynical then just take a gander at the relationship between the Aussies and the New Zealanders…frosty ehh.

Now you say that it’s not a good thing for Westminster to over rule the will of the Scots. But can I ask you what exactly the Scottish people want? Independence? Aye right. The last time I checked the majority of Scots favoured the current constitutional set-up. Am I wrong? Or have I been looking at too many polls commissioned by the unionist parties? And while I’m on a role I would ask you not to get carried away with the result in May. We all know the SNP benefited from issues which had nothing to do with the Holyrood elections. Their result reflects only a short term dissatisfaction with the UK government. It certainly does not represent this so called ‘air of change’ that the nationalists have been banging on about.

Now you say that I am unable to defend the union because I cannot articulate a scenario in which it would be under threat. But I believe that I said that if too much power was granted to Holyrood then this could undermine the legitimacy of the British state – is this not a scenario? And given that this appears to be the tactic of the SNP I would say that they are a threat which could get more menacing over time. Indeed, small things like changing the name of the Executive to the Scottish Government is all designed to undermine the authority of the British government. So yes this represents a threat to the union. Why else am I on here? To make pals?

Anyway you keep mentioning a seperate missive so whatever you want to debate let me know.

Cheers