The Scottish Government

#63. G Goodall

Sorry if I seem a bit of a pedant, but even I know that Robert the Bruce murdered his principle rival, the Red Commyn,to gain the Scottish crown.
Hardly the action of a man fighting for our right to choose.

The people of Scotland on the other hand wrote:
"Yet if he should give up what he has begun, and agree to make us or our kingdom subject to the King of England or the English, we should exert ourselves at once to drive him out as our enemy and a subverter of his own rights and ours, and make some other man who was well able to defend us our King"

If King Robert had accepted your hypothetical offer then he would have had to give up his Scottish crown.

King James VI/I later proved that when it came to ruling the two kingdoms he could only look after the best interests of England to the detriment of Scotland.

A situation which I believe has persisted through to the present day.

63. G Goodall - Fife

I would expect Robert the Bruce to of taken the Throne.

My point, however would be that we would of been seperate countries then.

And still seperate now. We would onyl share the same Head of State.

Will an independent Scotland move to the Euro? And what effect will that have on my pension which resides with a company based in Edinburgh? Should I be worried?

#61

Gordon you have missed the point again. Robert the Bruce fought the English to preserve our freedom to chose who we had at the head of our country, and made the Declaration as a commitment to fight the good fight.

If the English nobles had made him the same offer as was made to James VI, would he have stuck by the Declaration or sat on the throne in London? No-one can tell, but I would suggest that a reasonable person would think that he would have accepted the prize on offer.

#51. G Goodall - Glenrothes

Who's said anything about cutting ties with the rest of the UK?

As I understand it what the new Scottish Government has promised is to seek to rearrange the political relationships within the British Isles to be absolutely equitable for Scotland, and in so doing remove age-old animosities felt towards Whitehall habitually running roughshod over Scottish or Celtic interests to the advantage of those living within commuting distance of the Thames Embankment.

Given our cultural, social and economic links, this I feel could only bring the peoples who call these islands home closer together, with respect and mutual appreciation for their particular contributions to our economy and ways of life.


But if the SNP do intend as reported to cut Scotland off at the border and tow us out to sea, can I suggest towing us to somewhere with a few more degrees of sunshine when I'm not at work, and a gentle breeze to blow away the midges?

53. G Goodall - Glenrothes

I do not pretend to be expert in post ice-age anywhere, Cyprus or even medieval Scottish history but most of us should be familiar with The Bruce and his Declaration of Arbroath.

Not that it has much to do with the reasons why Scots should be running our own affairs instead of depending on the next door neighbours to do it for us but we DO know what King Robert the First thought.
The Declaration of Arbroath made it quite clear:
"as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself"
If you read the remaining text I think it makes pretty plain that Bruce and his nobles were ferr scunnered with the attentions of the Plantagenets.
"exhort the King of the English, who ought to be satisfied with what belongs to him since England used once to be enough for seven kings or more, to leave us Scots in peace"

On reflection, maybe it does have a certain resonance today.

#53 G Goodall
Cheers for the cyprus anecdote, i'll sleep better tonight.
As for calling me inadequate in career and life, i find that quite offensive since you don't know me, and all because i hold a passioniate belief that is different to yours, you should be ashamed of yourself, you give unionists with proper lucid arguments a bad name. I will not debase myself with comments about your career or life.

Lesson one: If you want to grow an economy, its all well and good talking about training and education, but there needs to be a degree of Scotland stopping the brain drain to south of the border. Im not going to go on a sob story, but I now have two degrees (one a Masters) and cant get a graduate job in Scotland. One of my friends who now works in a call centre for £12k has three degrees and has on her team someone with a PhD.... Now I respect Scotland and Im holding out as long as I can to find a job here, but there will come a point where financially I cant afford to hold off. I see potential in Scotland, and I hope it does make the break, but for now I fear the continual loss of educated students, who do value their degrees and most of whom have something to contribute to the country.

Controlling tax revenues and fiscal policy is of course very important and will afford Scotland the opportunity to implement polcies as appropriate to our circumstances as other small countries in Europe do.
Yes we will still have to abide by EU rules and will have to live with fluctuations in the world economy but we will be able to make our own decisions (and make our own mistakes) and take responsibility for them.

With independence we would be able to avoid costly mistakes like Iraq and the renewal of Trident which we neither can afford nor need.

I don't really understand much of the financial arguments, the whole thing is so horribly complicated. I just wonder, if we do have to be subsidised by the English (and I'm not saying we do)how did we get to that point. Do the English have to subsidise us because we are not as bright as they are? Is it because we are, as a nation, lazy? What do we lack that our English brothers have in such abundance. If the British government has been so good for Scotland how did we get into the state that the unionists keep telling us we are in? Not lack of investment and strong governance surely.