The Scottish Government

#106. Here We Go Again - Fife
Wednesday, October 10, 2007 13:48

Aye Dad, of course you're right.

Money from the tolls for years was used to maintain the A8000 and the bridge, but not very well.

If you check a little deeper you will also find £24million of the £36m to properly link the southern end of the bridge to the country's transport infrasructure came directly from Holyrood.

The Other parties did not 'step aside' to give the SNP a free run as you put it.
They gave themselves no other option.

They could not come up with an agreement between themselves to continue their coalition, or with the single largest party to join in the administration, so the SNP won the right to appoint Cabinet Secretaries and the privileges lost by the outgoing administration.

I know detail is an issue for you, but even you should be aware that constitutional issues are reserved to Westminster.

The SNP in effect cannot stand as an independence party at Holyrood elections.
The Scotland Act was designed by the majority Westminster Labour Party of the day to prevent Scotland ever becoming independent by way of an SNP victory in a Westminster style first past the post election.

Although morally if every Scot voted SNP at a Holyrood election we would soon be independent, Westminster and the Crown would still have veto over the issue.

This blogg is slanted towards independence, and not other options, as no-one seems capable or willing to construct a proper case for 'other options'.

You seem to have a high opinion of your own ability to speak for the 'People of Scotland'.
I am not convinced you do.

Why not just be content to give your opinion and let the 'People of Scotland' just speak for themselves?

Oh yes,I think checking your facts first before you do would be a help.

#104 Livilion

Sorry but I am right again. I said I would check and I have. The Scottish Executive had to modify the conditions under which the Forth Road Bridge tolls were used in the last parliament, to allow the money to be used for building the access roads to the motorway from the bridge.

For the record under proportional representation, the system which is in force in Scotland's parliament, parties which command the highest numbers of seats required to give an assured majority in parliament could form the government of the country. The SNP are the governing party because the others stepped aside to give them a free run.

If the SNP reason for standing is NOT to achieve separation from the UK why would it not set this pre-requisite aside and form a, more stable, coalition with the Lib - Dems and work with them to present a manageable budget. For that matter why did they produce a white paper as a priority on that subject?

And why is this blog slanted to promote Independence NOT other opinions?

The people of Scotland are politically aware and will note the developing 'nature' of the SNP and will eventually vote on their natural political preferences. Socialist, Liberal or Conservative. The SNP has to show its hand at some point!

103. So I'm right again? - Fife
Thursday, October 4, 2007 21:44

I didn't think I needed to say that constitutional issues are reserved to Westminster.

Logically therefore no election to Holyrood can be 'a referendum' on independence, even if however improbable, every party agreed to shelve all other matters.

#103. So I'm right again? - Fife
Thursday, October 4, 2007 21:44

Sorry for not coming back sooner, I have just now read your missive.

Deary me, first it was history you had problems with, now is it your sums and English?

At the SM's 1987 high water mark the SNP gave the islanders of Shetland the field to claim their independence if they wanted it by stepping aside and not fielding a candidate, thus not splitting the independence vote.
The Shetland Movement candidate came in fourth with 15% of the vote, slightly better than the Tories or Liberals did in May it has to be admitted, but it did not redraw the political map. Perhaps you could bring us up to speed on the SM's current status?

One in three?
Not even one in four of the UK electorate gave Tony Blair his landslide victory in 2001 (40% of a 59% turnout~24%), in 2005 New Labour polled 35% of votes cast, or 22% of the electorate.
IE this best result still left between 60% and 76% against them, depending how you count abstentions.
This was mandate enough to order new generation WMD delivery systems, ok new nuclear power stations, Iraq, etc.

So just to make it clear, in this country the party with **the most seats** forms the government and sets the agenda for the ensuing parliamentary session, even under PR.

As for roads being built from revenues raised by bridge tolls, I know of none in Scotland.
Of necessity roads are built before the bridge opens for business, think about it.
Give you something to do:
Go find out who actually paid for the M9 spur to join the Forth Road Bridge to the national motorway network, 43years after the bridge itself opened.

The difference between 'an election' and a 'referendum' seems to be an issue with you doesn't it?
Referendum: Inflected Form(s): plural ref·er·en·da/-d&/ or -dums
Etymology: New Latin, from Latin, neuter of referendus, gerundive of referre to refer
1 a : the principle or practice of submitting to popular vote a measure passed on or proposed by a legislative body or by popular initiative
b : a vote on a measure so submitted

The Scottish parliament in this case is our legislative body.
Political parties stand for election to the legislative body.
Chalk and cheese.

>>>PS is it true that there were more SCOTS fighting AGAINST Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden than were fighting with him?<<<

Yes it was civil war, why is this relevant?

If you are really interested, here is a link to give you a bit more insight into the political and religious roots of the last phase of the British Civil Wars of 1638-1746
http://www.british-civil-wars.co.uk/sitemap.htm

As for the 'raison d'etre' of the Scottish National Party?
I admit I am no expert, never having been a member or representative of any political organisation, but my understanding is that for the SNP independence is the means to supply the end, otherwise it would be the single issue pressure group you imply.

#102

If 1 in 6 in favour of a proposal is too small a proportion why is 1 in 3 a majority??

If the SNP reason for being an entity is independence for Scotland then why is any election for any parliament NOT a referendum.

Your spending too much time on roads paid for by bridge tolls and researching history that proves me right.

PS is it true that there were more SCOTS fighting AGAINST Bonnie Prince Charlie at Culloden than were fighting with him?

Should keep you busy for another wee while.

#100. So I was right? - Fife
Saturday, September 29, 2007 14:52

Congratulations on the 'hunnerup'.

Are you right? Why are we discussing events of half a millenia ago?

Shetland independence is so 1974 Old Bean.
Been there, got the tee shirt, tried the pies.

Divide and conquer, eh?
OK, but this topic was done to death decades ago.
In fact at the 1987 UK general election the SNP stood aside to give the local Shetland (Independence) Movement a clear field.
It came fourth with 15% of the vote.

If Orkney or Shetland wanted independence no nationalist in Scotland has been standing in their way.

btw:The vote in May was about Holyrood and nothing to do with independence, even though the Scottish National Party recorded the best election performance in its history.
Put it another way, more people in Scotland than ever before gave the SNP their vote in May, to the extent that for the first time in 50 years the once dominant Labour party has no majority in Scotland, and at local council level the SNP won an even more impressive result on May 4th.

However the upcoming UK general election could be the chance to vote for independence, you can settle the doubt then, if you're feeling lucky.

I left Scotland as a teenager when my family emigrated to Australia, I have now lived in New Zealand since 1961. I can't understand why people are afraid of independance as New Zealand is almost a mirror image of Scotland. Having a population of just around 4.5 million, are doing very well indeed economically in spite of being so far from the main trading countries, unlike Scotland with huge potential markets on her doorstep! Kiwi's enjoy a very good standard of living achieved by their own inovation, inventiveness and positive forward looking attitude which I believe has brought such success. Are those opposed to indepenence so doubtfull of their intelligence & ability, and that of their fellow country folk, to make the decisions that will achieve what is right for every Scot in their own country? Along with many small countries, New Zealand is making her way in a quite outstanding manner, bearing in mind that a huge number of Scots helped to forge the nation that she is now, can't the Scots at home do the same for Scotland.

#98 livilion

So you admit I am right, do you?

I may have got some of the detail wrong but the fact is still true that many of the islands which you regard as 'Scottish', were originally the property of other countries. Whether they were conquered, or paid for on a loan basis is nether here nor there. However they became part of the Scottish soveregn's domain they should be entitled to the same option that you are demanding for us. If you are suggesting that we SCOTS are entitled to dominion over the viking peoples of the islands because a piece of paper was signed, (over the protests of the islanders?) by their lords and masters, then we in Scotland are in the same boat!!! They just might want to separate from the mainland because they have a lot of oil revenue to divi up between very few people, in effect making them all very rich!!

The fact is that 2 out of every 3 voters don't like your option and you cannot accept it! If your leader wants to ignore the democratic will of the people of Scotland how can he expect to win their hearts and minds?

'Bleeding us dry' oh please spare us this nonsense. How many billions has Westminister given Scotland to help the economy and government. The Union has been the best thing to happen to Scotland. No matter how much those anti-english tw**s moan and groan about how Scotland has been shunned and oppressed by England we need to remember that Scotland is in the minority compared to England the wealth cannot be distributed down the line. Oh and another thing you think that indipendance is going to keep hardworking Scots you've got another thing coming. Income tax would drive people who have spent years getting an education as it is as an SNP economist stated 'economically nieve'.
I'm happy living under one flag for Britain as I care more about what kind of person I am than some border, accent and name I am associated with. What is Scottishness anyway ?

#96. George Steel - Fife
Monday, September 24, 2007 14:25

Holyrood's PR system of electing MSPs was set up expressly to ensure that no one party (SNP) could command a majority and thereby exercise, or even demand, independence from Westminster.

The first past the post system in the UK has meant that over the last 50 years Scotland has overwhelmingly voted for the Labour or New Labour Party and for 25 of those years got a Tory government.

A West Lothian Question and the reason for the demand for a more equitable political set up for Scotland and the Celtic Nations.

Had this demand not been acceded to when it was, then the likelihood is that there would've been an overwhelming demand in Scotland for repeal of the Treaty of Union, which if frustrated might well have sparked N.Ireland type consequences.

Remember the riots in England over the Poll Tax?

After 1922 the remainder of the UK imposed trade sanctions against the Irish, which cut them off from 95% of their former markets in Britain and the British Empire, which continued up until Eire, and the UK joined the Common Market, the EEC, in 1973.

One result of this economic blockade was the mass migration of destitute Irish joining similar Scots and English Northerners escaping to the New World.

The difference nowadays is that Irishmen are returning home to a flourishing independent Ireland while the North of England, Scotland and probably Wales are still suffering depopulation.
Even though they were the closest to the source of the greatest windfall to hit the UK in a century with the 80's oil bonanza from the North Sea, it was no protection for their jobs when PM Thatcher decided it was time to even the score with the trades unions.