The Scottish Government

117. Poorer Still - Fife

Actually with a military of 25,000 the £1.7 billion would be the right amount.

Why we need a Navy? Who knows what we could face in future. I'd rather have a Navy then no Navy at all.

I was estimating that we would have an army of 30,000 to 35,000 and well my calculations were based on that idea.

But Scotland is not planning an invasion into Iraq (Its been done already) and well the military will be better off knowing even if they were under funded least they will not be killed because their Government is to cheap to pay for the equipment.


Another go? You failed to answer my questions just continued to blab on about other matters.

Aberdeen is also heavily in debt thanks to the last City Council (LibDems and Tories) and those cuts we hear is not the SNP's fault.

And Alex Salmond has admitted that Local Income Tax is actually a Tax cut which would effect other areas of Government.

The point of the Local Income Tax was to put less strain on those who struggle to afford rising fuel costs and rising food costs. (Income Tax is suppose to save 90% of the Scottish Public money, while the 10% most richest pay more.)

Scotland is one of the most energy rich country in Europe and we have one of the heighest rates of tax and duty on our energy.

We have a British Government dedicated on kicking the public who earn peanuts already where it really hurts. And this is not the first tax stunt they have pulled...(10p Tax Row)

Should we really allow Scotland to be bullied?

Can you justify the high tax rates we face in Britain?

If we were Independent we could copy Irelands low tax example to encourage investment.

And with the oil, which Ireland does not have who knows the possibilities...

#116

So the budget for our armed forces will be £1.7 Billion? Your first calculation assumed we spent 10% of £32 Billion so are we making a saving of £1.5 billion or are we under spending and therefore putting our armed forces in jeopardy? You say we need a navy then question whether it is necessary, which is it? Fag packet still handy for further estimations?

The saying, 'There's no such thing as a free lunch' is true so the reference to the increase in cost to care referred to Fife; other councils make their savings in different areas, e.g. Aberdeen. My source is the BBC Scotland news and current affairs programs. The freezing of the Council Tax was a short term gimmick based on each council making a year on year saving of 2% of operating costs, or around and 8% reduction over 4 years. These savings will have to be realised by 'efficiencies', or more appropriately job cuts, or reductions in services in each area. The SNP government is backing off its manifesto promises by passing the buck to the local authorities because they know they cannot meet them. That is why I and others like me want to see the detail, not listen to the rhetoric. Want another go?

115. Definitely poorer - Fife

If you must know the SNP has planned a military of 25,000 strong. Course, you need an airforce, navy and army.

Do we patrol the North Sea now?

What are the threats in the North Sea?

They have set a budget of approx £1.7 billion.


Can you show some evidence to back your claim that Care is now expensive all over Scotland?

I could ask my mother for her opinion since she is a Carer but I would like to see your evidence first and if your wrong then well you will just be told your mis-leading and selective in the use of facts.

Labour has increased the spending. But then we were put into Afganistan and Iraq.

They tried to blame the Tories but the Tories said when they cut the armed forces spending they were not fighting abroad in several countries.

Does it matter really that Labour has increased spending? Soldiers are dying still because of lack of equipment.

Labour simply are not doing good enough. Unless your prepare to state that a few lives are acceptable losses?

#114

According to the website the defence expenditure is £32.6 Billion in 2006/2007 rising to £37.6 Billion in 2010/2011(A 15% increase). That is more than the total annual budget for Scotland for the same periods.

As the Scottish government does not have to pay for the Army, Navy or Air Force personnel, equipment or logistical support then the sum you present as probable costs are spurious. If you are suggesting that it is as simple as dividing the total expenditure by 10 then you are being naive. (Or £652 rising to £752 per person in Scotland)

The first planes to intercept the Russian bombers were Norwegian so I assume we will need an Air Force to comply with NATO duties. I would also assume we will need some form of Navy to patrol the North Sea, as well as a few infantry divisions? Tanks? Do we buy this equipment in or do we expect the UK to supply it?

When the SNP obtained an agreement to freeze the Council Tax the cost of care in Fife (Under Labour the cheapest in Scotland) went to the most expensive (Under SNP / Lib Dems). This experience is being repeated in many other councils across Scotland, so I can hardly accept the argument that the SNP is better at controlling expenditure than other parties.

As for the high faluting officer classes who claim that the forces are under funded, they are, for the most part, CO's who were in charge as the expenditure in the armed forces was reduced, under the Conservatives, and were responsible for co-operating in the reductions. Expenditure on defence under Labour has increased substantially since 1997.

I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting your calculations were done on the back of a fag packet, but they fall far short of being convincing.

113. Rich or Poor 2? - Fife

You assume to much and of course you should never assume anything.

If you want simple math. Britain currently spends approx £30 billion per year on the army, airforce, navy (alltogether).

Together their numbers are approx 330,000. The ratio between Scotland and England (Excluding Wales, Northern Ireland) in terms of population are 1:10 England.

In other words, Scotland would have an army (Including R.A.F./Navy) of one tenth of England if we were looking to stay the same strength and keep everything the same.

I am sure you can see where I am going and you can divide the £30 billion up for what 'Scottish' military will need if we were Independant and that is how much we would need for our military.

But I will also point out Scotland does contribute more people into the army then Britain according to the amount of population who live in Scotland. Of course England recruits more for the army but the Scots do alot better since we have a smaller population.

Now NATO...

There are some guidelines you have to follow but that is not important but the cost for being in NATO almost free.

Countries co-operate with one another while developing new weapons and this reduces costs because you all put in a fair share.

So really the cost of NATO is free unless you are operating abroad or developing weapons in NATO.

I could go into more detail if you were to mention specific areas of what you want to know.

And I dont need to hear about your qoutes from people who were in the military.

You have seem top MOD military generals and what not admitting we are underfunded and the troops are not getting what they need.

Godsake you are having army soldiers in the junk yards of Iraq looking for metal they can use to repair their equipment.

Some even have broken life saving equipment such as helmets. One soldier said "A broken helmet is better then none at all..." The point is if we really are going to send them somewhere at least throw them a bone or two and not send them away to come back dead.

Last but not least...

You are taking shots at the S.N.P. over the 10p tax row. How they never decreased the tax level by 3p for those in dire need?

Well the S.N.P. has already spent alot of money with the council tax freeze and working on free perscriptions for everyone.

If Labour really wants to increase taxes then why should S.N.P. change their spending etc to cover for Labours greed?

The S.N.P. are saving us money in otherways, dont pile Labours problem on them.

Now are you going to insult my intelligence again by assuming I know nothing else?

I think that I have made it fairly obviose that I know more about the subject then you.

Could go further.

#112

The question is not what do I know about what it costs to be a member of NATO or provide an army, navy or air force, but how much would an independent Scotland have to pay or contribute towards the same?

I have not been a member of the armed forces but other members of my family have been. Anecdotal evidence suggests that while there have been error of judgements in some theatres of conflict as to the equipment requirements the materials and equipment are usually up to the mark. I am quoting from military personnel who served in active situations. It would be inappropriate to spend tens of thousands of £'s to train up personnel for active duty to put them in jeopardy by not providing correct equipment.

As for the removal of the 10p tax rate I suggest that the adjustment of allowances and reduction to 20p was seriously miscalculated and that the UK government will rectify the situation to relieve the problem. I do not notice the Scottish government leaping in to mollifying the situation by reducing the tax level by 3p for those in dire straits.

I assume your knowledge of the cost to the country to be in NATO is as great as mine, i.e. zero. I look forward to you proving me wrong and providing the numbers I requested in my first post.

107. Rich or Poor? - Fife

Another point.

Could Scotland be worse off military wise Independant?

Britain and I am speaking from experience DO NOT supply their soldiers with the correct military gear.

If anything an Independant Scotland could provide her army with sticks and sheilds and we would be alot better off then we currently are.

Have you been in the army? I am guessing not. Have you any idea what we save being in NATO? The limits and rules and of course what Britain contributes?

I am guessing not and ask why I should explain myself to you when you have shown no evidence that you yourself know anything about NATO etc

107. Rich or Poor? - Fife

That is right. Labour gave us the mininum wage and increased it recently.

But hold on did they not also double the tax for low earners to?

So pretty much they gave us a raise and snatched it from us.

To be honest they really are just ripping off the companies who have to pay the mininum wage because Labour only increased it recently and no one has had real time to enjoy their new foudn wealth before the taxs come into effect.

But why should Scotland continue to feed Britain oil?

With Scotland England for example would have less access to oil and then would have to import more.

Then you can go into the supply and demand where more people (In England) would be demanding to buy more oil because of the lack of access from Scotlands reserves and price should go up slightly.

Thank god for nuclear eh? Hold on even nuclear does not last forever...

109. RORY mackinnon
"COME ON MSP'S ANSWER YOUR PEOPLE BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION??"

Couldn't agree more. It's very bad-mannered of Ministers (First or Second) to start these blogs - and not even have the decency to acknowledge that they bother to read the postings.

Without that acknowledgement, this "National Conversation" is an empty gesture.

(from a poster who supports Independence, and wants genuinely Representative and Open, Democratic Government).

(107 fife) I agree the goverment of scotland should be answering your questions not i. Fiscal expert im not. But 22 billion wasted on the likes of trident needs answering.I truly believe that scotland governed from london is not working and has not for a long time.(104) Andy liphook the debate i think and aree with you, requires input from msp's.The scottish hating the English is always brought up in these debates.This is done so as deride any relevant contribution by unbias scots.Scots like myself just would like to be heard and taken notice off.Not run down by press and bias before we even get a democratic debate and hearing. COME ON MSP'S ANSWER YOUR PEOPLE BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION??