The Scottish Government

Graeme (1263) asks "Can we some how set up a credible poll on this web site?"

No, we can't. No poll conducted through a web site can possibly be "credible". The ONLY credible poll would be a properly organised, one-person-one-vote, poll of all the electorate of Scotland on a simple "Independence - yes or no?" question. No "QUASI" referendum is acceptable.

Frank W – 1282

I think you (and many others) are misinterpreting the sentiments of those of us with reservations in relation to independence (I must again protest the “Unionist” label).

The majority of us are not debating the benefits of independence for Scotland. It is not that we particularly WANT to remain part of the UK, but rather that we want to ensure that the move is made at the RIGHT TIME. I am not proposing any guarantee of economic prosperity, or an assurance that Scotland will overtake the remainder of the UK in this context – merely that there is some evidence of movement in the RIGHT DIRECTION when it comes to reducing our dependence on the additional financial allowances we receive.

As you have ascertained from my previous response, I consider the NHS, Education and Social issues to be of paramount importance, and I feel that the improvement of these would be the things most likely to sway me in my opinion. I am not approaching this with a closed mind – on the contrary, I think that Scotland SHOULD have more influence over its future, but I confess to be in favour of what I hear described as the “gradualist” approach. To my mind, the most favourable approach would be first to claim more power over education, health, and the areas of legislation most likely to affect the social problems prevalent in Scotland.

I think that once improvement is shown in these key areas, and once the deficit in revenue (as mentioned before) is showing reduction, then many people with reservations will be more receptive to the proposal of independence.

Incidentally, I would like to thank you for entering into rational conversation on this – at some points there seems to be a distinct lack of it in this discussion site.

I have never been a member of any political party, but I am a member of Determination, the non-aligned campaign for self-determination for Scotland. We have notified the United Nations Human Rights Commission that we consider the British government to be in breach of its human rights obligations as a member state of the UN, by refusing a referendum on independence for Scotland. (Yes, we do have their refusal, in writing.)

Ardnafearn (1238) wrote "A quasi-referendum could occur should a by-election in a marginal SNP seat arise"

No by-election in any seat can possibly be considered a referendum, in fact, no general election can possibly be considered a referendum. ALL such elections are PARTY POLITICAL contests. They are contests in which people vote for POLITICIANS who want to get elected to office. A referendum does NOT involve voting for any political party, a referendum does NOT involve voting for any politician, a referendum involves saying "yes" or "no" to some proposition.

Gordon Macdonald (1239) wrote "Your chance to vote in the referendum http://snappoll.com/poll/214064.php "

That's not a referendum either, because, although it is not party political and it doesn't involve electing any politician, it isn't a properly conducted vote in which every person on the electoral roll in Scotland has one vote. On the one hand, the significant percentage of the population of Scotland who don't have regular computer access won't be able to vote in this "poll" at all, and, on the other hand, it would probably be all too easy for SOME folk to vote more than once.

The only thing that is acceptable as a referendum is a properly organised, one-person-one-vote, poll of all the electorate of Scotland on a simple "Independence - yes or no?" question. No "QUASI" referendum is acceptable.

A web log (blog) is somebody’s log of what they did and what they thought. It is not a conversation. People adapt and the confused mixture of logs here has developed successive themes. Currently I see quotes from literature - particularly Burns – and independence from empire. With the delay in blogs appearing online, things may have moved on (the delay does seem to have improved). There have been comments on the limitations of this format and the response seems to be to start the whole thing again with a blog from Bruce Crawford, the Minister for Parliamentary Business. I don’t think that’s helpful.

More helpful would be to start blogs, conversations, with more focussed subjects. An obvious one is what should be in the first referendum:
negotiations for independence;
increased powers for the Scottish Parliament;
abolition of the Scottish Parliament;
abolition of the Westminster Parliament;
other options people are suggesting?

I write - first referendum - because a mandate to negotiate is not a mandate to accept any outcome of those negotiations. It must be clear there will be a second referendum. That is my view but it is another subject for debate or conversation.

"Scottish solutions for Scottish aspirations"..."financially accountable Scotland"...."reform, renew and connect"...."Support for change"....
Jings, Crivvens an' Help ma Boab, is that you Wendy?
Ah must have dozed aff there, last ah remember ye wur tellin us Scots that we wur just subsidy junkies that couldnae organise a piss-up in a Brewery an' if we took any thoats aboot aspirations or financial accoontability anywhere near a pollin' booth we might just end up hivvin tae make oor ain beds.
Oh, ah see, ye've just changed yer mind? Ah wunner hoo that happened? Did ye go tae Damascus at the Fair, or hiv ye been overdosin' at the Calpol again?
An' whit dae ye think yer two new best pals, the Boy and Madam, ur gonnae make o' this? Wee Nicol shouts fur his Mammy if he hears the I-word and Dame Annabel gies the best imitation ever o' Spitt the dug when she hus tae say "Alex Salmond". They'll be thinkin ye've been readin' Alex's White Paper, an' their no goin' tae be verra pleased at gettin' backed intae a coarner right awa wi' thae big wurds ye've bin yaisin.
Alex'll be happy tho'. Ye'll find it difficult tae vote against him noo - unless ye staun' oan yer heid - again. That'll amuse the bairns.

Having problems posting. Sorry if this commentis a duplicate.

In response to * 1254, Allan Steele-Washington DC

Hi Allan, thanks again for recommending contributors to this conversation to digest ‘The Steel Report’ (www.scotlibdems.org.uk/files/steelcommission.pdf ), this time I did view it, and it does make interesting reading. Fiscal federalism as advocated in this report does sound attractive and no doubt could satisfy the electorate who demand change, but are unsure the consequences of full political autonomy: Independence, at an National and International level. However, unless I have misinterpreted the report, adopting fiscal federalism means sacrificing our future political aspirations of political separation from the Union: Independence. Again, unless I have misinterpreted the report, Fiscal Federalism should not be seen as a step on the road to Independence, but a final event.

Yesterday Wendy Alexander made a speech that used terminology associated with New Labour. However after reflecting on her speech and reading ‘The Steel Report’ the similarities of some of the content are comparable. Yesterday I accused Wendy Alexander (Post *1224) of running “cap in hand to her masters (New Labour) in Westminster and get them to sanction any policy change to help get her party to regain power in Scotland.”; I was wrong, as well as relying on New Labour she now seems also to be relying on the ‘The Steel Report’ to formulate (diluted) her and The Scottish Labour Parties policies to regain power. Wendy should remember what she stated yesterday “There is little appetite in Scotland for politicians who put their own agenda first”. The phrase Scottish Labour/Scottish Liberal Democratic pact springs to mind.
I like Allan Steele-Washington DC *1254, I would recommend that all those who are concerned about Scottish politics should read ‘The Steel Report’
(www.scotlibdems.org.uk/files/steelcommission.pdf), but for different reasons to Allans. By reading the report it will highlight the hypocrisy of Wendy Alexander and the Scottish Labour Party.

300 years ago the elite few of the scottish parliment decided to surrender the soverenty of this nation, without any consultation with its people, since then we have never been given the common courtesy or democratic right to say yes or no to this union.
would all the unionists who say that to finaly be given that right is a waste of tax payers money be so quick to surrender the soverenty of the uk to the european union without a refurendum??? I dont think so!!

this refurendum is about democracy finaly being given to the people, let us have our say!

can we also have a vote on the monarcy?

long live the repuplic of scotland!!!

I am neither a Unionist, nor a Monarchist, nor do I subscribe to any Religious persuasion. But the very idea of a free and independant Republic Of Scotland has GREAT appeal to me! - for a whole host of reasons (too numerous to mention here). My only regret is, due to an acute shortage of Public Sector Housing, I am stuck here in Norwich, and therefore unable to return to Scotland, to participate, come the next General Election. Please SNP - do your very best to educate and bring on-side ALL those detractors - they don't know what they're throwing away!

During the last election we heard a lot about the U.K.dividend from the Unionists but none of them gave the true dividend i.e. Maggie Thatcher and the Tories, decimation of Scottish industry, Tony Blair and the illegal Iraq War,dodgy political funding, the list goes on and on and on!
Lets get our own goverment it is bound to be a lot better than that.
Roll on a Free and Independent Scotland.

What's the difference between Brit nationalism and Scots nationalism?

One country wants to govern itself while the other thinks it can still govern everybody else!

Seriously though, there are a plethora of unionists on here who seem to have been brought up on Empire Biscuits! The Empire has gone, folks! Get used to it!

I've seen plenty of good reasons for an independent Scotland, but none whatsoever for the status quo. Maybe Bendy Wendy will add something to the debate although ah hae ma doots....