The Scottish Government

Ref 1344. Sam - Castle Douglas Thursday, August 23, 2007 22:35

Sam,

You say "I am sorry to disagree with you over this but I do not know were you find this kind of information." Well, I did provide my source and it would seem to me that if you have the experience you mention you might find it interesting.

I have also worked on EU matters for around 24 years as well as as a senior scientific officer at the EU Commission in Brussels. Indeed, I have also managed audit and travelled to look at abattoirs including dairies, grain systems (about 80 separate major concerns) as well as noting that, more recently, some of the European "meat trade, consists of plastic bags full of ear tags flowing down the "supply chain" and complying with traceability requirements when the real animals were slaughtered illegally and exported on the back market some time back and without a vet in sight.

You confirm my point where you say " Gordon Brown knows he cannot allow any EU referendum here ... even though he promised this." In fact this is one of the very points covered in the paper I refer to. The problem is that politicians indulge in, and make a range of off the record deals around the Councils largely on the basis of mutual pressure (political party backscratching) and in the case of smaller countries, blackmail. Under such circumstances the smaller country politicians always end up as the most compromised. Cash diplomacy is rampant in the politics of small EU country dealings and this, combined with the arbitrary decision-making arising from the increasing politicization of judicial decisions in the European Courts against which governments, you and me have NO appeal, is why the people of smaller nations within the EU are neither independent nor protected as it seems you presume.

1323. Dave Coull - B

I think you have made some excellent points re the federal system. I am impressed by your depth of knowledge
Germany has a Federal make up and there is much ill feeling over which states have more expenditure or more industry or more government jobs, so in reality its as bad as this system. Sorry, not quite. Though, in what was East Germany there is a serious problem with their acceptance by the more affulent parts; who in turn accuse them of being spongers who can only survive through subsidies paid from a heavy tax burden raised from the other more successful parts of the Federal State, or the Federal government bankrolling anyone who will set up any kind of industry as a sop. I leave you to draw your own conclusions.

No 1332 Ian Ross

** It is that the small countries in Europe have absolutely no influence over their own destiny nor ability to defend their own citizens against increasingly arbitrary EU administrative and legal decisions. **

I am sorry to disagree with you over this but I do not know were you find this kind of information. I can only presume that it is from EU sceptical sites.

I have worked in Holland, Belguim, France, Germany and Denmark and each of these run their own ships in their own distinct ways. Yes, they have their dislikes over some of the EU dictats but I must repeat that it is the UK civil service who pad out the legislation in such a fashion that they will keep themselves in employment for as long as.
I could provide details to you of countless breachs of EU rules that I and other ex pats are well aware of in each of the countries I have listed above. I would say that the UK seems to adopt and glorify these rules to the extent that as Gordon Brown knows he cannot allow any EU referendum here. Even though he promised this. The Dutch and French people were asked, so hardly unable to defend themselves, yet these two countries do not adopt the slavish interpretation of all that the EU legislative assembly decrees. I suggest that if you can, travel and look at things like abitoirs, food shop assistants handling cash and food without gloves, tax releif given to shipbuilding projects etc etc etc. These items are only a very very small example of the bending or avoidance of EU 'advice'.

No 1324 Gabrielle H.

Again I will reuse one of your unionist sentiments "While the BBC may edge towards the non-independence view of things"
MAY EDGE! Please, give me a break.
I genuinely feel that this is a waste of my time but I can gather from your well thought out and considered stance that if the SNP administration can somehow demonstrate to you that the sun will shine every day and the rain will only fall during the wee small hours and there will be absolutley no waitng lists for any kind of treatment, schools will be advertisng for pupils, public transport will be as efficeint as taxis and cost next to nothing, then possibly just possibly you might concede and give them your approval, and eventually your vote. Shucks. Of course we have almost this level of service given to us allready by HM government, and yet, all those other contributors who have the bad taste to point out about all those dirty industries that were polluting Scotland and had to be destroyed in order to save us from a life of hard work. Well they can be ignored, cos HM government must have a reason and although you are not quite sure what it is then you are hoping that things will improve and then you will see. Hunky Dory.

As far as I can tell, the SNP has given some HOPE back to Scotland, and I personally feel better for it.

I get the feeling Dave Coull in 1302 on page 53 is having a go at me for my 1293 on page 52. But he expresses almost identical views to what I put in 1152 on page 47 – let’s keep the referendum to a single simple question.

To provoke a reaction I included some looney views on referendum questions. The point of my 1293 was that these threads are getting lost. An intelligent conversation needs a response to what has just been said, not after 9 or 150 people have said something different.

Ref: 1258. L Stevenson - Dundee
Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:22

You say "Most of Europe is now made up of small nations and I for one think it's Scotland's turn to join them as an equal partner." and that "My question for all those who say Scotland wouldn't or couldn't survive is this. What makes Scots so singularly incompetent that, unlike the Irish, Maltese, Norwegians, Icelanders, Estonians, Latvians, Barbadians etc, etc, etc, we can't run our own show?"

The issue is definitely not that the Scots are incompetent. It is that the small countries in Europe have absolutely no influence over their own destiny nor ability to defend their own citizens against increasingly arbitrary EU administrative and legal decisions.

It is worth reading the paper, "The Real Crisis is already here" at:

http://www.seel-telesis.com/bsr/

Right this is going to take a bit of following stay with me.

Suppose just suppose for a minute that everything westminster says is true. Im not saying it is im just saying imagine that when they (westminster) say we get more money back from them than we pay in its true.
Ask yourself this, if this is true then that makes me and you a scrounger, dependent on someone else to help me out continually because i am incapable of providing for myself. (remember we are just imagining)
Now imagine, really imagine if you will doing that in your everyday life picture yourself going to your next door neighbour right this minute chapping their door and saying "excuse me i am incapable of managing my money or providing for myself or even looking after myself". Give me twenty quid or i am going to leave. Your neighbour would say. "Nay bother away ye go ya numpty". Ask yourself this why, why, why is our neighbour england not doing this. God they must really really LOVE us scots so so much to instead say "no we want to take care of you have the money" boy they really must love us must they not????? Excuse me while i remove my tongue from my cheek. Now the interesting bit if you follow labour then they have effectively been calling you a scrounger when they said scotland cant afford to go it alone. Are you a scrounger? Or are you like me perfectly capable of manging your own finances.

ps. anyone disagree with this if you do gonni tell me where you live so i can talk to your neighbour you obviously have much kinder neighbours than mine.

pps. Wendy! about that fiscal autonomy doll.....

Independence is not about cost or benefits, it is about self respect, pride and dignity.

It is time that we all looked at ourself and asked the question - Do we need our hand held to get on in the world, or have we the confidence to stand on our own two feet.

Independence is our right, why should we be denied it.

scotland had a thriving railway industry during the age of steam'building engines and exporting all round the world.it was nationalised under labour and all the investment went to england and when the steam age was coming to an end they built all the facillities in england especially in derby and closed all the scottish yards down.it was the same with the steel industry natinalised under labour in 1968 and again all the investment went to england they closed all the scottish plants down and took the machinery to england.as soon as the oil started they built a 500mile pipeline from the north sea down to london and built refinaries in london and the london government keeps all the revenues and keeps telling the same old lies about subsidiesing us.there is a lot more oil and gas still to be extracted off the west coast of the western isles,so let's get independence before they take that as well,,,,,,,,,,

1324. Gabrielle H - Aberdeen
Thursday, August 23, 2007 14:43

>>>Hang on, didn’t our current government – the one running this discussion and pushing for quick independence – recently try to STOP a tram system in Edinburgh? Isn’t that a model urban transport scheme? Oh well…
<<<

Er yeh, that was the point.
If we had the funds, everyone could have their own pet projects.

Presumably you do not have friends or family members being raised in one of these dead end estates where life is just getting from one day to the next.
No-one seems to care and no-one seems to be prepared to help.

Kids get into drugs and criminality as a vehicle to escape the hopelesness or to even the score with the world.

Wait and be sure that what you thought might be right is confirmed 10 or 20 years later.
How many kids have you condemned in that time?

How many force projections will we have backed and how many lives will we have destroyed in that time?

Don't be the one that get's to your last breath wishing 'if only'.

What about all those sparkling lives that we could set up, all the new opportunities, all the dreams we could help fulfill?

Imagine in years to come wishing 'If only we'd only done this sooner'?

'Had I known then what I know now'

Scotland should naturally be rubbing shoulders as equals with the likes of Portugal, Austria, Greece or New Zealand.

Do any of those nations ever doubt that their people are anything but best served as nationals of these countries?

Do the Portugese sit up at night wishing their country was part of Spain?

Or do Austrians long to be part of Germany?