The Scottish Government

Come on now, 1359 - Matt of Edinburgh and 1360 - John o' London, this is a serious debate, not a Festival Fringe performance, so engage brain before putting mouth into gear!
What facts have you to justify your comments? Let's have them!

Still unclear who will vote at the conclusion of this conversation. Residnts of Scotland, Voters in Scotland, Scots living abroad beyond EU, Scots living in EU, Scots serving in British armed services, Scots who have become naturalised citizens elsewhere, Aliens who have become naturalised Scots (Britons?) but living outside Scotland? Huge constituency of potential voters. Who will decide eligibility?

1360 - John London. Without question, London subsidises the rest of England, as does Scotland. Indeed, even Margaret Thatcher conceded as much some time ago. It is also ironic to suggest that "[Scotland] want to spend the money on paying doleys rather than use it to grow the economy (sic)". Scottish unemployment is lower than the UK national average.

I am already getting tired of the smug arrogance of this executive (Scotland’s Government is in Westminster) the ministers strutting around stating mandate for this and the Scottish people want that! You have never asked me or anyone I know what we want and it’s certainly not the same as you! You have conned the electorate at the last election with Alex Salmond for 1st Minister SNP Party just so you were 1st on the roll! And as for the council voting system you got in through the back door in Edinburgh and we are paying the price with your duff policies now. Only 50% or so bothered to vote and of that 1/3 voted for you hardly an overwhelming vote to breakaway from the rest of the UK (N Ireland and Wales NOT just England.
If you do get this dream of independence what then? Will we meet the criteria for EU membership because the rest of the UK will retain the UK seat in Brussels and where does that leave us? We have at present a seat on the UN Security Council, what say will this backwater have when you drag us kicking and screaming in to the Stone Age? And the cost who will pay? You have already scrapped are trying to scrap some great projects to improve our country and our carbon footprint i.e. the Borders rail link, the Edinburgh Trams and tolls on bridges. I for one love my country and am proud to be Scottish but if we go through with this folly I for one will be on the 1st plane out, no doubt big business will be along behind me shortly.

John of London (1360) asked "Have you any idea how much money we Londoners pumps up to Scotland?"

Some towns got big because they produced something. For instance, Bradford's textile mills, Stoke-on-Trent's potteries, Birmingham's engineering workshops, Sheffield's fine quality steel products, Glasgow's shipbuilding, and so on. Other towns got big because the king was there. London is one of those towns that got big because the king was there. By the beginning of modern times London was already big. The formation of the United Kingdom made it even bigger. Precisely BECAUSE it was the centre of government, it became the "centre" of the biggest free trade area in all of Europe, and the capital of the most highly centralised state in all of Europe. The growth of the British Empire made it also the centre of government of the biggest empire on Earth. Even after the Empire became the Commonwealth, London remained the centre of the Sterling area. The centre of the world empire remained a centre of world business out of sheer force of habit. London remained a centre of world banking, a centre for the offices of multi-national companies, and all of this happened because, to begin with, the king was there. So the government was there. So all the companies who wanted to get contracts from the government were there. This process is continuing to this very day. Many, many billions of pounds of OUR money is being spent on glorifying London still further for the Olympics. Of course they try to tell us it is for the benefit of all of us, just like they said about the Millenium Dome, but the truth is, the Olympics are for the benefit of London. I lived in London for twelve years, working as a bricklayer. That's a useful job, you might think. But what was I building? Sometimes it was office blocks for the millions of pen-pushing bureaucrats. Sometimes it was houses for the millions of pen-pushing bureaucrats. Sometimes it was houses for the people who provided services for the millions of pen-pushing bureaucrats. Hardly anybody at all in London actually PRODUCES anything at all. They are all there because the government is there. This entire mega city is just one great big pile of bureaucracy.

Yes, John, I know exactly how much Londoners subsidise us.
They don't.
It's the other way round.

1360 London

You just don't get it.

We have to do what Westminster TELLS us to do , which includes HOW to spend money etc.

Therin lies the problem. We want to run our own affairs, without Independence that can never happen .

simple really

#1358 this is just compete nonsense. Have you any idea how much money we Londoners pumps up to Scotland!!!

If you want to spend the money on paying doleys rather than use it to grow the economy that is up to Scotland. It is not the Union's fault, it is Scotland's fault.

Bored with these arguments from Nationalists that independence will cure world hunger, end the arms race, cure aids, result in 45k increase in money for each Scottish citizen etc etc. Economic growth is possibly within the structures provided by the Union - we do not have to break the UK up for Scotland's economy to take on the Irish.

Of course Scotland is like tibet brutally repressed by Butcher Brown the Scottish PM at Westiminister who is so hated by the English that Labour are currently 10 points ahead in the UK opinion polls.

Can we all just grow up a bit.

You have to end this Union because it has only been a success for England.

South of England in particular.

The SNP government is proving to be a real breath of fresh air. It's great to see a first minister who speaks on Scotlands behalf with real gravitas and passion This raises our game (Scotlands) in the eye's of all who we make contact with. I think that we as a nation were largely invisible before the election of the SNP