The Scottish Government

1407. Gabrielle H - Aberdeen
Monday, August 27, 2007 21:24

Hi sorry to take so long to come back.

Pet project? Concentrate on the most important first-I think that's what I was saying was it not?

Drumchapel, I was born at the Rotten Row and started life in Forbes St, and Orr St, Bridgeton. Top landing of a single-end tenement.
My folks bust a gut to get out of there and made it to East Kilbride and gave my brothers and sisters a chance.
Other families around us did as well.

We knew folk in the next close with a table and a single electric light bulb and that was their 'furniture'.
I can still see it in my mind's eye like a scene from the Indian subcontinent.

That family had nothing but would've given a toddler like me the shirt off their backs. I always got a 'peece' and a cup of tea even if they couldn't have one themselves.

Being grindingly poor doesn't make you bad, it doesn't even condemn you to stay poor, but it sure means that for the biggest proportion the debilitating effect of struggling just to get to the next day kills hope and effectively keeps you in a spider's web of missed opportunities.

My grandmother buried five children and having her fifth to survive, my mother, killed her.
As a boy my grandfather had been sold to a farm near Livingston as a labourer.

He ran away to join the Royal Navy at Rosyth, just in time to be a naval gunner at the WWI Battle of Heligoland. He was invalided out with 'shellshock' after being sunk by enemy action a fifth time.

My mother and her brothers were split up and sent to stay with aunts, some ended up being sent to childrens' homes. The oldest died of scarlet fever. She spent half her life in and out of hospital with TB and corrective operations for the effects of childhood polio, more or less up untill she got married.

Just a couple of the wee diversions that could be served up to the poor.
They never got the chance for a normal home life, or education, never mind university.

In my wee ivory tower in Livingston I never see or meet poor people.
Not until I go to visit my cousins who are still stuck in Shettleston.

Their school had a yard, no playing fields to let off rockets on, and no school orchestra.
The only instruments they saw were the rag and bone man's bugle, their uncle's moothy and the Orange Walk.

It isn't just because they are somehow lazy that poor areas stay poor.

Just as it suits some political parties to have areas of home owners with two cars in the drive to bolster their numbers, so others possibly feel the need to keep poor people in areas of deprivation so they can have a reservoir of 'workers', to protect from the bosses.
Shades of 'Animal Farm' come to mind.

Ladies and gentlemen,

I think this thing has probably run it's course. Given that there have been 1424 comments to date, with multiple contributors such as myself, out of a nation of 5,000,000 (not including the diaspora), it appears that Scots are more interested in the daily problems life tends to throw up; perhaps politicians and we armchair commentators might take heed - we're still not connecting with those who matter - the people of Scotland.

Now I think it's time for our lawmakers to return to governing our nation, for the rest of us to look out for the needy and for constitutional change to be soberly addressed, but never to the detriment of the issues of the NHS, education of Scots children and the security and safety of our people. Take care of these issues and Scotland will thrive, no matter what setting she finds herself in.

Thanks for the fun though!

1405. Duncan - East Kilbride.

Can we pleae have some authority for the information here? If you've previously posted it sorry, but I can't find it.


To Everyone: I quite like to see where information is coming from. Can you put down authority for it please or direct us to an earlier post if it is contained there? Not necessary for opinions, just for facts and figures thanks (some things, like funding of different sectors, etc, is of course unnecessary). Thank You :)

To John in Calgary (1412) - Voter eligibility in a referendum well explained by Dave Coull in 1370.

What I would really like to see is the draft of a written Scottish constitution.
Whatever my position, I can see from comments in this conversation that the electorate is divided on the subject of independance. One thing I feel may unite us is formal consideration of what it means to be a Scottish citizen.

Despite the many statements by those who wish the Union to continue, there is an ever increasing case being made by various Institutes in support of Independence
Contrary to a myth that Scotland could not survive as an Independent nation, its now evident that it could and it would most likely do well.
Its now well documented that the Adam Smith Institute, who issued a briefing document, support the idea that Scotland would be better off (http://www.adamsmith.org/index.php/main/individual/indepe...) ‘Scotland’s growth rate might be expected, over a five-year period, to move closer to Ireland’s trend growth rate of 7 percent. Given a further five years of Scottish growth at that trend level, and before diminishing returns set in, Scotland’s growth over the ten-year period would put its index 71.5 higher, more than a two-thirds increase in GDP. By contrast the rest of the UK would be expected to have grown rather less, by just over a quarter. The result would be dramatic for Scotland. Measured in household income per head, Scotland, which started £1,700 behind the rest of the UK, could be expected to be £6,000 ahead of it at the end of that period’
The case for Independence is further bolstered by by the latest revelations from Prof.Brian Ashcroft of the Fraser of Allander Institute, who also supports the feasabilty of Independence for Scotland, reported in the Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article232...) but ignored by the Scottish Papers as well as the broadcast media. The Labour party tried to downplay the seminar, unfortunatly for them, it was actually filmed, so there is no doubt as to what was said as well as a power point presentation, which is also been made available. Its not the first time that the Fraser of Allander Institute has supported the viability of an Independent Scotland, as another proffesor and founding director David Simpson also stated that he was in favour of Independence.
So why is it that the three ‘pro-Unionist’ parties of Labour, LibDem and Conservative want to ensure the continuation of the Union with England? Why do these parties want to ignore the National Conversation started by the Scottish Government, prefering to ‘huddle’ together and try and place some control on what the people of Scotland want to discuss. Perhaps it’s the nature of these three parties, that the want to stifle free discussion, not only with the Scottish people but also within each respective party.

#1416, #1418 - thanks for the feedback.

If I may make a teensy-weensy suggestion. Instead of labouring the point, 'Google' it.

I did, and all the information is there: if you're prepared to look for it, that is.

Happy hunting!!

Ardnafearn (1414) asks "How will Alex Salmond coerce Gordon Brown into introducing an enabling act?"

I don't think it will be necessary for anybody to actually twist Gordon's arm. He has more brains than either Maggie Thatcher or Tony Blair, so I think sooner or later he will recognise the new political realities. But just suppposing he doesn't, why do you assume it's up to Alex Salmond to "coerce" him? If Gordon was resisting the clear will of the people of Scotland as a whole, then it would be up to the people of Scotland as a whole, NOT Alex Salmond, to do something about that. And no, it doesn't have to be a single strategy ordered by a "leader", in fact the less attention we pay to Alex, the less we follow _anybody's_ party line, the better, there are loads of different (non-violent) tactics the people could use. You may not have much experience of people power, Ardnafearn, but, for instance, I actively opposed apartheid, and the boycott campaign against apartheid South Africa did help to bring about the collapse of that apartheid regime. Also, I have been involved in a building workers' strike which succeeded in gaining our demands, so I know from experience that industrial action can sometimes succeed. I was involved in the anti-poll-tax campaign of course, and that led to both scrapping the poll tax and to the downfall of Maggie Thatcher. Plus which I have been involved in various non-party-political campaigns, demonstrations, etc etc. So, boycotts, strikes, non-payment, non-co-operation, these are just a few of the possible (non-violent) tactics. But that is far from being a complete list, I would trust the people of Scotland to use their considerable imagination (and sense of humour) in devising ways of making life difficult for an intransigent government, just like we made life difficult for Maggie. But like I said, the chances are none of this will be necessary. Because Gordon has more brains than Maggie.

Stevie, Dundee (1413) says "so there isn't a thread of anti-English and anti-British feeling within the SNP family."

Stevie, I know that there is some anti-Englishness in Scotland. My own son, born in London and speaking with an English accent, experienced some of this at secondary school in Scotland. But you are applying this specifically to the SNP. I'm not a member of the SNP family, in fact I have reached the age of sixty six without ever being a member of ANY political party, but from my own experience I would say no, members of the SNP are not anti-English.

"Really? You sure about that? Starter for ten. Who, then

1. stated that the Flag of the Union is the butcher's apron..."

I don't know, Stevie. I have heard this description, but it wasn't from a member of the SNP. Did somebody who you consider to be "part of the SNP family" use this description? Who was it, Stevie?

"2. gleefully reported the exit of 'The Great Satan' (England) from a World Cup..."

Wasn't that Jack McConnell, at that time First Minister and leader of the Labour Party in Scotland? I know he took the attitude that he would support "anybody but England".
But it could just as easily have been almost anybody, from approximately half of the population of Scotland. However, since you, Stevie, claim that it was "a member of the SNP family", you must have somebody in particular in mind, so could you please name them?

"3. compared a senior Scottish Labour minister to WW2 traitor Lord Haw Haw..."

Again, Stevie, I don't know. But since YOU obviously do, could you please name them?

"4. accused the same Scottish Labour minister of being a Quisling..."

See above

"5. demanded, at a meeting of activists, that the 'Brits' get out (presumably from Scotland)..."

This sounds more like the rhetoric you used to hear from supporters of Sinn Feinn in Northern Ireland, back in the days before Martin McGuinness became best pals with Ian Paisley. But since YOU are claiming it was said by a member of the SNP, Stevie, again, would you please name them?

"6. claimed that the British army presence in Scotland was an army of occupation..."

Same thing again, Stevie. I don't know, but you do, so please share your knoweledge with the rest of us?

"7. stated that Scotland's divorce from Britain would see England lose a 'surly' neighbour..."

Ah, didn't Alex Salmond say something like that? Anyway, whoever it was, I think they had a point. I know from my own personal experience that people in Ireland are far more likely to cheer an England team in the World Cup than people in Scotland are. There would be less of such "surliness" if we were independent. We could be good neighbours.

[1413] "Nice, positive comments" regrettably cannot be used to describe questions that seem to be aimed at degenerating this 'conversation' to a trade in the expression of perceived personal prejudices. Constructive comment always requires more thought, especially where one does not seem to agree with the opinions and/or politics of others, but thankfully up to now there appear to have been mainly constructive comment from across the political spectrum, and generally, I believe, without personal prejudices creeping in. Perhaps you and "Braveheart" [1416] could put your minds together and make a constructive contribution to this conversation on taking Scotland forward?