The Scottish Government

THE NATIONAL ANTHEM

Scotland needs an official unofficial anthem. I want to raise the Debate about our national anthem.

God save the Queen is an anti-scottish anthem that has nothing to do with Scotland. An anthem should be about the people and the land they inhabit not 1 person who was born to a position of power.

I would like Highland Cathedral to be the anthem but I realise it is not as big a song as Flower of Scotland or Scotland the Brave but it could be.

Highland Cathedral sums up the Scots people as a whole. It is basically about Scots who are off fighting in a distant war and how they dream of home.

It is a brilliant song and it should be our anthem. Scotland is too great a country to have Flower of Scotland as our unofficial anthem. It is good to sing on the Football or rugby pitches but not as an anthem.

Plus Scotland is more than just how we went down and beat the English at Bannockburn.

We need a song that makes all Scots proud of their home and History, from every scot, American scot, canadian scot, australian scot. Scots are a too great a race to have a football anthem as its national anthem.

Please please please raise the debate about the anthem. We may not have an official anthem but no matter we can still have an anthem and that anthem should be Highland cathedral.

thank you...

#1543. Cameron S - Aberdeen
Tuesday, September 18, 2007 22:45

Here's what the Government said on the matter of 'who's oil is it' in the now imfamous 1975 McCrone Report:

Quote
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Can one be certain that the oil is without doubt a Scottish asset or, even if it is, that these substantial revenues and balance of payments advantages would indeed accrue to an independent Scotland? Clearly these questions raise complicated issues in international law which could, if allowed, occupy the legal profession for many years. Two possible lines of argument may be expected:
either that Scotland should pay England some compensation for appropriating the most productive part of the Continental Shelf, or that the whole shelf should be regarded as the common property of the nations of the former United Kingdom with revenue distributed in accordance with some population based formula irrespective of where oil is discovered. As regards the first of the arguments, the prospective return from oil revenue would at the very least be one of the factors taken into account in determining the financial settlement between the two countries when they become independent. To argue the second would be directly counter to the line that the UK Government has taken with the EEC, that the resources of the Continental Shelf are as much a national asset as are those on land, like coal mines, and that there is therefore no question of the Europeanisation of North Sea oil. Disputes on these matters might well occasion much bitterness between the two countries, but it is hard to see any conclusion other than to allow Scotland to have that part of the Continental Shelf which would have been hers if she had been independent all along.
There might be some argument about where the boundary between English and Scottish waters would lie. At present this is considered to be along the line of latitude which lies just north of Berwick on Tweed, and it might perhaps be held that it should run NE/SW as an extension of the Border. This could have the effect of transferring the small oilfields in the south, Auk and Argyll, to the English sector, but would not affect the main finds.
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End Quote

Don't you imagine that if HMG had found a legal way to secure all of the North Sea Oil resources for herself it would have come out with a better way than keeping the whole thing secret for as long as it could?

[1543] With all due respect it sounds as if you have been speaking with too many lawyers!

To suggest that it should “be proven without a shadow of a doubt we will be better off as an independent nation” before you would support Independence expresses a sentiment that would not have seen the human race emerge from caves in anything more than animal skins. Life today is full of risks and the successful people you proudly point to must have taken many risks along the way, especially if they were successful in the oil and gas industry. Of course we all want more certainty in our lives, especially as we get older, but as Scotland slips relatively further behind some of our more ambitious neighbours there is an onus on those of us who have enjoyed success under the ‘current arrangements’ (and sometimes in spite of the current arrangements and prevailing personal circumstances), to help reverse this decline and extend the opportunities to achieve similar benefits to others less fortunate (but perhaps equally determined to work hard for the benefit of themselves and their families) and to do so in Scotland if possible. Independence will not come with any guarantees, but it perhaps offers more hope for all than persisting with a constitutional structure that has failed many of the ‘less privileged’ in our society over recent decades.

PS If this still sounds too risky for you, perhaps you should start talking to some independent economists because Scotland has much more in the way of resources at its disposal than oil and gas (reserves of which are probably significantly underestimated given previous predictions). When you speak to them, you might also ask them to quantify the amounts flowing to England and the South East in supposed UK infrastructure spending which might help put the tax ‘shortfall’ you speak of in a broader context.

Finally if you wish to keep talking to lawyers and none of your legal friends are capable of constructing an agreement to beneficially allocate oil and gas revenues arising from within Scotland’s geographical boundaries then I would suggest that you embark on a search to discover some lawyers with more competence in this area!

Hi there I am the other half of Gabrielle H of Aberdeen (who has left the conversation after getting fed up of repeating herself plenty of times here, but mostly for the sake of her sanity lol)

In reply some of the comments left for her:

1522. Sam - Castle Douglas

The scheme in the Raploch is INSPIRED by a similar scheme in South America not funded or run by them.

I fail to understand the point you are trying to make about the education system, we should be (and I am) proud of our current standing in terms of providing an excellent education to those who now attend school. I do agree we should never rest on our laurels in trying to improve on our current system, but to my mind we should be grateful that there are so many opportunities for young people to go and improve themselves and gain a great education and make the most of there lives where as their parents often did not have that choice and commend previous governments for this current situation.

To clarify her point about the social problems, her feelings are the same as mine which is that it is more important to find ways to decrease poverty/improve the quality of life for every Scottish resident than to play the blame game which achieves nothing!

If anything all these European reports are suggesting that our current administration should be entirely focused on sorting these problems first before considering a referendum: to rectify them would show fantastic leadership and would settle a lot of doubts about independence.

1483. Peter Forsyth – Aberdeenshire

I agree, there is far too much poverty in some of these areas (one person in poverty is too much), but not as much as one may assume. I know quite a few people who earn significantly more than me who live in Tillydrone-esque areas and pay a third of my rent keeping the flat/house as it is the easy and cheap option rather than leaving it for someone who may need it. I also know someone who lives in a Tilly flat even though they own a house in the Highlands, which sits unoccupied.

To say it is all doom and gloom in these areas is sheer nonsense, I know of plenty of people both young and old who disprove the notion that you can’t start from nothing and end up making a great life for themselves. I look at my boss who came from the council estate in Kincorth (fishing family) and now own and runs a multimillion pound business mainly though the determination and work ethic. I look at Gabrielle’s friend who was raised in the roughest of estates in Kilmarnock, after her father did a runner, as the oldest child she pretty much raised her siblings as her mother had to work to pay the bills. She was so determined to make something of her life she worked at school and ended up doing so exceptionally that she gained entry into Law school eventually coming out with a great degree and she is about to start at one of Edinburgh’s finest law firms as a trainee lawyer. It should be noted she worked part time jobs to keep her going through uni and that she still sent money to her mother to help her raise her brothers and sisters and still came out with a fantastic degree.

The above stories only go to prove that opportunity always exists for those who really want to take it, while more can and should be done to encourage the person to get themselves out of poverty, there is still an impetus on the person(s) involved to help themselves and not to purely rely on the handouts they get and make no mistake there are some who settle for this life rather than better themselves.



Other Points

So far in this conversation we have learnt that if Scotland had become independent in the 70’s we would be a far richer nation that the one we currently reside in, well that would have been great then but this is NOW and a fair majority of the oil has now been extracted. Even though I work in the oil and gas industry, I see no guarantee that this will be our saving pot of gold over the long-term.

I want to know exactly what plans any independent government has for the just in case possibility that any extra oil money (if we get it and lets be fair do you think any government will want to give it up?) does not meet the shortfall Gabrielle H described earlier (see this websites budget figure to see how much extra in tax we receive compared to how much we contribute).

It should be noted that should we become independent there is no guarantee at all that the oil companies (BP and shell etc) money would come to the Scottish purse as a lot of the money does not come to the UK as it is. The magic oil money Scotland gets is via income tax on workers and taxes on business involved with the oil and gas industry itself. According to several of my friends who are lawyers whom have considered the legal implications of any declaration of independence on the division of oil money, it is very much a grey area as to how much if at all Scotland would benefit from the apparent extra income we are supposedly due.

So when it comes to the oil, I don’t assume anything and I would encourage the SNP and other parties (NO taxpayers money should be involved) to get an independent team of legal experts (we have several wonderful law departments here in Scotland which are generally more respected than our English counterparts) to sort out how much extra money if any we would get should we choose to decide to break away from the UK.


To clarify my position before I get accused of have 101 union jacks lying around my house and singing God Save the Queen 20 times a day. I am willing and am very open to listening to information about the benefits of Scottish independence, as I have said above, should it be proven without a shadow of a doubt we will be better off as an independent nation, Mr Salmond and co can count on my vote, until then I will err on the side of caution.

Dave[1539] - I take your point about not making equivalence betweeen the Scottish and Catalan situation. I feel the most important distinction, however, is not clear borders, but the fact that both the Basque country and Catalunya are the two most economically vibrant areas of Spain whereas Scotland is an area of great hitherto unrealised potential within the UK.

If we let the people speak right now then the overwhelming answer will be NO and then the issue will be bedded for another generation. We have exercised our democratic right and ousted a Labour/Lib Dem administration that has been in power for a very long time. We have to build upon this success and show that a non-unionist party can govern effectively in partnership with others. For me this will be a demonstration of efficacy in dealing with the issue of inequality and poverty in this country. Then and only then will the climate be right for a referendum and constitutional change.

As for me, I'm all for an independent republic, although I'm not a fan of the SNP and live in hope of new wholly-Scottish parties rising to meet the needs of modern Scots.

As for England, Wales and Northern Ireland, I think Scottish independence would give them space to consider what kind of countries they want to become.

Colin Anderson (1533) wrote "As someone who has lived some time in Catalunya, but is now resident back in my native Scotland" - my daughter lived some time in Catalunya. Along with family and friends I attended her wedding there. But like you she is now back in Scotland. "Many people from the autonomous regions of Spain - Basques and Catalans - have felt obliged to take dogmatic stands on their constitutional question through the rhetoric of their politicians". Much as I respect the people of Catalunya, I think our situation is very different from theirs, or the Basques. In both of those cases, you have "border disputes" involving both Spain and France. The more extreme Catalan nationalists question Catalunya's borders to the north, south, east, and west. To the north they want part of France around Perpignan, to the west they want territory including the Pyrennean principality of Andorra, to the south they claim Valencia, and to the east they want Majorca and Minorca. The Scottish claim of independence is much simpler, and much more straightforward. The territory for which independence is sought is the territory which at present comes under Scottish law. There are no border disputes.

Colin, you say "I voted SNP at the last election and feel that independence will evolve from devolution in my lifetime". But Colin it is a fact that many people, including people who did NOT vote SNP, are in favour of independence, yet feel the way to achieve this is through a non-party-political self-determination referendum. A referendum is not a question of any politician wrapping themselves in a flag, it is not a matter of party politics at all, a referendum is a matter of simple democracy, of voting yes or no on a straightforward question. Let the people speak.

small critism men or women that are doing the ministers post should answer questions however tough you and nicola formidable but need to see the rest of the goverment in action wether parliment or tv to show that snp is not one man band or one women band, im sure they will shine

This conversation gives great hope for Scotland's future. To have a government with the full range of powers in Edinburgh now seems modern and normal. Yes to independence.