The Scottish Government

Disability Working Group

Satellite Group 2 Meeting Note 30 June 2005

Attendance:

David Thomson, Scottish Executive (SE) Equality Unit (Chair)

Bill Campbell, Inclusion Scotland

Carol Chamberlain, Scottish Human Services Trust

Stephanie Miller, Update

Lewis Morrison, West Dunbartonshire Council

Elaine Sosinka, SE: Public Services Performance

Lynn Waddell, DRC: Fair for All

Maggie Williams, RNID Scotland

Joyce Wilson, SENSE Scotland

Sheila Williams, Capability Scotland

Charlotte McHaffie, SE: Equality Unit (Note taker)

Apologies/Not in attendance:

Iain Montgomery, Scottish Trade Union Congress

Mike McDermott, Disability Rights Commission

Gordon MacRae, Leonard Cheshire Scotland

Sandra MacDougall, Scottish Association for Mental Health

Welcome and Introductions

1. David welcomed the group to the second meeting of the satellite group on public sector duty and mainstreaming.

Note of last meeting

2. Note of the last meeting was agreed. Action points:

• Mike McDermott is unable to chair the group as suggested and this will therefore need to be discussed further.
• DRC and CRE unable to attend this satellite group meeting but will attend next.

3. Maggie Williams and Joyce Wilson both sit on the DRC's Code of Practice group. This group has had presentations from the Equal Opportunities Commission and Northern Ireland Equality Commission and it was suggested that Equality Unit ask DRC to circulate papers for these meetings so as not to duplicate this work.

Background papers

3. The group was asked if they were content with the background papers for today. It was agreed it would also be helpful to circulate the Fair for All Equality Impact Assessment Toolkit and the Structural funds Equality Toolkit.

Discussion

4. The group discussed and considered a variety of issues including:

• How to ensure local authorities and public bodies don't just do the minimum but take a positive and proactive approach. The provision of guidance to public authorities to assist them to go further than the bureaucratic aspect. A paper on concepts of positive action was suggested; although this would be helpful it was not considered an immediate priority.
• Bill Campbell felt that every public sector organisation should undergo a disability equality audit. Inclusion Scotland are currently working with Reid Kerr Paisley College to assist them to audit their organisation.
• Local authorities need to consult and engage with disabled people out-with the established user groups. Essential to engage with hard to reach groups not merely the usual suspects.
• In terms of the paper on Linkage to key developments in public sector policy Elaine Sosinka said that although Audit Scotland will assess on whatever guidance is produced, they can only audit bodies who have an accountable officer. This means they may not be able to use Best Value to ensure all bodies are undertaking their disability equality duty. Need to establish a clear way bodies are audited on the duty. DRC will be the enforcer but could be problems if this role is spread between a variety of bodies.
• Increasingly public authorities are seeking information and assistance on disability equality. Need to have a coherent message and response. Commitment to this agenda by staff, however, commitment does not seem to come from the senior levels of organisations. Need to have decision makers/leaders on board to drive forward.
• Concerns were raised about disabled people's understanding of the disability equality duty (DED), particularly when enforcement of duties lies partially on disabled people identifying problems.
• Inclusion Scotland are holding a conference on 21 September for all colleges on disability equality at Reid Kerr College Paisley. Outcomes of the day might be useful to help inform this group's recommendations.
• Need to consider all public authorities covered by the duty e.g. Police, when discussing this groups recommendations. Lynn to provide name of ACPOS member responsible for disability.
• Concerns were raised about consultation fatigue amongst public bodies and amongst disabled people.
• Public authorities want to know how they should draw up a Disability Equality Scheme, what should go in it etc. Group suggested that it might be helpful to provide public authorities with broad guidance which bodies could develop to meet their individual local needs. This would ensure each body was working from the same disability equality principles.
• Useful to look at race equality plans to see if they can provide any pointers. Equality Unit can provide the group with the Executive's Race Equality Scheme and targets.
• It was suggested that a paper on what public authorities e.g. Police, fire brigade and NHS are already doing on disability equality would be helpful. Might highlight opportunities for joint working and sharing good practice.
• Would be helpful to invite the DRC Disability Equality Duty Implementation Team to join the group.
• Lewis Morrison said that each year Audit Scotland go round each 32 Local Authorities on a specific theme. This year the themes are 'Sustainability and Equalities'. Once this has been completed it would be useful to circulate this report round the group to help understand the broader picture of equality amongst local authorities.

5. David recapped the discussion and suggested it could be broadly brought under the following three strands.

1. Awareness raising and sharing of knowledge and practice with public bodies and people; with an emphasis on leadership.
2. Planning and what we would expect from a disability equality duty action plan.
3. Consultation and involvement; expectations and ways to consult and engage with disabled people.

Planning future meetings

6. As Mike McDermott is unable to chair the meetings alternative arrangements were discussed. David explained that it was hoped that a core group member or if this was not possible a satellite group member would be prepared to chair the meeting.

7. No one considered themselves able to take on chairing of the group and therefore David was asked, with support from the core group members, to be the permanent chair. This was agreed.

8. For next meeting on 24 August, 14.00 to 16.00 in Victoria Quay:

• DRC and CRE talk;
• Information on Fair for All - Lynn;
• Consultation and Involvement - invite SE Civic Participation representative to attend;
• Lewis to contact CoSLA Equality Network about their experiences of consultation and involvement e.g. what works.

Planning the report back to the Core Group (19 July)

9. The group agreed for Joyce Wilson to report to the core group on 19 July about their discussions so far.

Any other business

10. Lynn is going to America to lecture at North Carolina University and is meeting with their Department of Health. She will circulate to the group any relevant papers about their approach to disability equality.

11. Group asked Equality Unit to provide the notes of all satellite groups and for the meeting on 26 September to be rescheduled.

Action Points

1. Prepare a paper on what the police, fire brigades and NHS, and if possible the wider public sector, are doing on disability equality.
2. Equality Unit circulate notes of all satellite meetings to group.
3. Equality Unit circulate Fair For All Equality Impact Assessment Toolkit and Structural Funds Equality Toolkit.
4. Equality Unit circulate Executive's Race Equality Scheme and targets.
5. Equality Unit ask DRC if can circulate DRC's Code of Practice group minutes.
6. Reschedule meeting due on 26 September.