The Scottish Government

Disability Working Group

Satellite Group 1 Meeting Note 28 June 2005

Group 1 - employment.

Attendance:

Teri Devine, RNID Scotland (Chair)

Joe Dowd, Scottish Executive: Transitions to Work

Gillian Lawrence, Disability Rights Commission

Linda Long, Sense Scotland

Padam Singh, Scottish Enterprise

Ian Sneddon, Scottish Disability Equality Forum

David Thomson, Scottish Executive: Equality Unit

Apologies and non-attendees:

Ian Montgomery, STUC

Chris White, SAMH

Introduction

1. Teri welcomed the group members to the second of the satellite group 1 meetings. Those attending introduced themselves and said a little about their areas of interest.

2. The agenda for the meeting was to consider and discuss a number of background papers which had been provided in advance and then to agree a way of working towards developing recommendations.

Note of last meeting

3. The note of the meeting on 23 May was agreed.

Background papers

4. The group received background papers on the following:

• Employment benefits, costs and contexts
• Engaging employers
• Employment and mental health
• One Workplace Equal Rights campaign
• Careers Scotland - a guide for Glasgow school leavers
• Routes into volunteering

Discussion

4. The group had a wide discussion of the issues raised in the papers, focusing mainly on helping employers to employ more disabled people. Key points arising from the initial discussion were:

• Need for understanding the arguments around whether it is beneficial (financially and otherwise) for all disabled people to work?
• Is there a need for case studies (positive and negative) which illustrate issues for disabled people around benefits, wages, social benefits and care packages? There would be a need to agree any work on this with Jobcentre Plus and it may fall into reserved responsibilities.
• It would be useful to understand models of employment which are used elsewhere - where employment for disabled people is working.
• There is a need to deliver sustainability in approach to whatever recommendations the Group makes.

5. Key points from the discussion around engaging employers to employ more disabled people were:

• Need to find a mechanism to engage positively with employers and to help them see the benefits of employing disabled people.
• Employers are often unsure of terminology, and either report having too many or too few sources of information.
• Engaging with all of Scotland's employers is very difficult. National bodies and trade associations do not necessarily cover all of Scotland's employers. There are problems of scale, and the divers nature of disabilities and communities.
• There are differences of approach needed for small, medium and large employers.
• It may be possible to contact employers through large national databases like the Inland Revenue's tax database.
• It will be important to construct a credible message and business case for employers. It will be important to understand the labour market situation and perhaps to address specific gaps - for example bus drivers. And discuss how to fill those gaps.
• There could be links with the Fresh Talent initiative and Future Skills Scotland research.
• What are Scottish Enterprise and Highlands and Islands Enterprise doing for minority groups including disabled people? And who sets targets for these and similar bodies.
• There has been a specific example of targeting employers in Forth Valley with Jobcentre Plus and Disability Employment Advisers. Careers Scotland has also done work that could be transferable for young minority ethnic people called Diversity Works.
• It will be important to ask employers what they want. Examples suggested were one-page letters explaining legislation, cd-roms on employment issues, local business breakfasts, peer-sharing of good practice, local businessmen and disabled employees at local FSB seminars.
• Any of this type of work will require local ownership to succeed. Similar DRC events have cost around £3000 each to stage. Can and should this be replicated more systematically across the country? Can this be sustained?
• The perceptions of employers can be very different - for example worries about how disability affects health and safety.
• It may be that there are too many disparate attempts to address these issues - would one place to support employers to highlight helpful information be a positive development?
• It may be possible to link this work with Business Gateway and Citizen's Advice Scotland.
• There may be existing programmes like the two ticks for disability programme, Scotland's Health at Work, Chartermark or Investors in People which could carry these issues as part of their programme.
• Public sector procurement could have a role to play in ensuring disability employment policies.
• How do we help small companies, which may have a lack of relevant skills and experience. Is there room to provide information on interviewing and recognising skills in disabled people - there is already a guide for employers on how to recruit from minority ethnic communities.

6. In addition, the following was discussed around recommendations:

• It will be important in any recommendation to ensure that people are working together and that there is no duplication of effort and initiatives. It may be possible to seek sponsorship from the private sector and a god practice employer.
• The Group will need to consider how best to measure success on any recommendation.
• It will be important to assess any recommendations for impact on children and young people.
• A possible recommendation for the Working Group might be that: The Executive should have someone to sell the disability and employment message as the focus of their work.

8. A list of action points were agreed as set out at the end of this minute.

Planning future meetings

8. The group has three further meetings planned. As the discussion had focused on employers, it was felt important that the discussion at the next group focused on disabled people as employees.

Planning the report back to the Core Group (19 July)

9. Teri and David agreed to report back to the Core Group meeting on 19 July.

1. Equality Unit to provide a paper to the next meeting setting out models of success on employing disabled people and lessons to be learned for the devolved environment in Scotland.
2. Ian to provide information on DWP's 'The Knowledge' on disability and employment issues.
3. Gillian to pass details of DRC's Employment Reference Group to David for circulation. This will include the list they have created of intermediaries for employers and employees.
4. Ian to circulate (via David) his previous information on barriers to employment.
5. Equality Unit to provide information on Fresh Talent objectives and Future Skills Scotland research.
6. Equality Unit to find out how disability equality is considered in Investors in People, Chartermark, Scotland's Health at Work. Also to find out latest situation with Two Ticks for Disabled People.
7. Padam to provide information (via David) on modern apprenticeships and skillseekers.
8. Joe to provide information on the Enterprise and Culture Committee review.