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Meeting note - 25 November 2004

WORKING GROUP FOR RESEARCH INTO THE LEGAL SERVICES MARKETS IN SCOTLAND

NOTE OF FIFTH MEETING ON 25 NOVEMBER 2004

** Also available in Adobe Acrobat PDF format **

Present :

Andrew Dickson, Scottish Executive Justice Department, Head of Access to Justice Division
Professor Robert Baldwin, London School of Economics and Political Science
Professor Alan Paterson, Director of the Centre for Professional Legal Studies, University of Strathclyde
Professor Frank Stephen, Professor of Economics, University of Strathclyde
Elaine Samuel, University of Edinburgh, School of Social and Political Studies
Sarah O'Neill, Scottish Consumer Council
Chloe Clemmons, Citizens Advice Scotland
Grahame Horgan, Office of Fair Trading
Lindsay Montgomery, Chief Executive, Scottish Legal Aid Board
Douglas Mill, Chief Executive, Law Society of Scotland
Neil Ross, Grigor & Young, Elgin
Michael Walker, Maclay, Murray & Spens
Roy Martin QC, Dean of the Faculty of Advocates
Debbie Headrick, Senior Researcher, Scottish Executive Legal Studies Research Unit
Alison Dewar, Scottish Executive Justice Department, Legal Services Policy Team

In attendance :

Eleanor Winton, student placement with the Scottish Executive Justice Department

Apologies

1. Apologies had been received from Martyn Evans, Scottish Consumer Council (SCC), Michael Clancy, Law Society of Scotland, James Wolffe, Advocate, Dr Anita Morrison, Scottish Executive and Mike West, Scottish Executive. Apologies had also been received from Alan Williams, Office of Fair Trading (OFT) who was now the OFT's official representative on the Group.

Introductions

2. Andrew Dickson welcomed Eleanor Winton who had a student placement with the Justice Department and was observing the meeting. Mr Dickson conveyed the Group's congratulations to Roy Martin on his election as Dean of Faculty. Mr Martin intended to continue to sit on the Group as a representative of the Faculty.

Group Membership

3. The Group noted that there was outside interest in its composition, including an article in the Herald on 22 November. The Executive confirmed that Ministers were content with the composition of the Group. The article quoted in part a response to a Parliamentary Question. A sentence had however been omitted, to the effect that "The research undertaken under the auspices of the Group has sought evidence from other organisations with an interest in the relevant issues: and the Executive will of course take into consideration any further relevant submissions put forward".

4. The Executive was asked how the views of organisations and individuals who had expressed an interest in membership of the Group would be taken into account. The Executive advised that it would consider representations made, but reiterated that Ministers were content with the composition of the Group.

5. Mr Dickson noted that the members of the Group, other than the researchers, represented the organisations to which they belonged and had been chosen by their organisations and not by the Executive. However, in response to the concerns raised by the Society about the position of Mr Grahame Horgan as a member of the Group, OFT had agreed that Mr Alan Williams should be the formal representative of OFT. The Executive thanked Mr Horgan for his contribution to the Group.

Minutes of the Last Meeting

6. The Group discussed the draft minutes. The Society had asked that the word "formal" be removed from the fourth sentence of paragraph 8, on the grounds that OFT had said that no action of any kind was currently planned. OFT resisted this, saying that as a summary of the discussion as a whole the word reflected the OFT position. The matter could not be resolved and it was agreed to note the opposing views. The minutes would be published with the word "formal", but with a note to the effect that this wording had not been agreed.

Matters Arising : Society and OFT correspondence

7. The Group noted the correspondence between the Society and OFT on the position of the former OFT representative on the Group and related matters.

Matters Arising : Action Points

8. The Faculty had prepared its paper on advertising and would send it to the Executive.

9. The Society circulated its response to the Home Office consultation on the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 and the Money Laundering Regulations 2003.

10. The Faculty confirmed that it had no formal record of the Dean having instructed an advocate to take a case under the cab rank rule. There was however anecdotal evidence that this happened informally from time to time.

11. It was agreed that the Executive would circulate a summary of the outstanding action points with the draft minutes.

Matters Arising : Queens Counsel

12. The Executive's Courts Group had provided a note for the Working Group on QC appointments in Scotland. An announcement of the appointment of an independent person to observe the process was imminent (Sir Roy Cameron's appointment was subsequently announced). Advertisements seeking applications for appointment as QC were placed in the Herald and Scotsman on 26 November and would also appear in the legal press on the first available publication date.

13. The Group noted the paper. The Scottish Consumer Council welcomed the changes to the appointments system but commented that there was still a need to consider whether there was any requirement for such a quality mark, whether it was in the interests of consumers and whether it distorted competition. All of these issues had been raised in the OFT report on Competition in the Professions in England and Wales. The Scottish Consumer Council requested written comment from OFT. OFT welcomed the opportunity to provide comment.

14. The findings from the Group would be included in its final report.

Auditor of Court research proposal : oral report

15. The Executive had written to the Lord President of the Court of Session and Sheriffs Principal seeking authority to interview the auditors of court and would provide an update at the next meeting. Anecdotally it was reported that clients in one sheriffdom were no longer "entitled" to taxation but rather they could "request" it. The Group noted the Scottish Courts Service had published its consultation paper "Arrangements for Extra-Judicial Audits".

RWG 2004/2/1 Regulatory Framework for Legal Services in Scotland

16. It was agreed that the paper would be published on the Executive's website subject to the following amendments :

16.1 paragraph 6 - include deleted sentences "Advocates are recognised as "officers of the court" with duties and responsibilities beyond those to their individual clients. They are not a simple service provider able to provide their clients with a service in a way and at a time entirely of their choosing."

16.2 paragraph 18.1 - to reflect 18.3 and "if the sheriff is satisfied that such a person is a suitable representative and is duly authorised to represent the party".

16.3 paragraph 29 - "In July 1992, the Faculty adopted a constitution for an elected Council".

16.4 paragraph 38 - revise to make clear that the Faculty's Tribunal is only part of its complaints procedure as Complaints Committees are also used.

16.5 SLAB would send a paragraph on the interaction with legal aid legislation and its ability to take a solicitor to the Scottish Solicitors' Discipline Tribunal (inserted at paragraphs 42-43).

16.6 paragraph 51 - mediators did not give advice but assisted the parties to come to an agreement.

RWG 2004/2/2 Professional Rules etc with potential implications for Competition in the Scottish Legal Services Markets

17. Professor Frank Stephen, OFT and the Faculty had provided contributions for the paper.

Solicitor Advocates

18. The Executive agreed to consider rule 1(5) of schedule 1 to the Solicitors (Scotland) Rules of Conduct for Solicitor Advocates 2002 which provides that "A solicitor advocate may not accept instructions on any basis which would deprive him of the responsibility for the conduct of the case or fetter his discretion to act in consultation with the client in accordance with his professional judgement or public duty." This might be interpreted to mean that while a solicitor advocate could act with junior counsel, he would have to defer his responsibility for the case if he was acting with senior counsel.

19. Having considered rule 1(5), the Executive would review paragraph 13 of the draft paper.

Scale Fees

20. OFT drew to the Group's attention that on 25 June 2004 the European Commission had fined the Belgian Architects' Association 100,000 euros for failing to abolish the system of recommended fees that applied to its members. The view taken by the Commission was that the Association's recommended minimum fee scale was in breach of competition rules because it sought to co-ordinate the pricing behaviour of architects. The Group agreed that this case was significant and the Executive would consider further.

21. Professor Stephen commented that there was a need to draw a distinction between competition law and competition. What the legislation delivered might not be what was required to introduce competition.

Advertising

22. The comments from Professor Stephen on advertising reflected an appropriate interpretation of empirical evidence. Academic literature had sometimes been misinterpreted by non academics: Professor Stephen had therefore attempted to distinguish between early academic work which had used flawed methods, and subsequent work on the effect of professional advertising on the fees of non advertisers. In the end, the same conclusion was reached that advertising appeared to increase competition. Professor Stephen considered that if the Group was providing evidence for any future work, it was important that evidence from Scotland was recorded. The significant point was the impact of price advertising. Professor Stephen also noted that some research failed to distinguish between different forms of advertising.

Restrictions on receiving a payment for a referring a client

23. In relation to paragraph 35, the Executive would update the Group on the Council of the Law Society of England and Wales' consideration of the ballot of its members which had found in favour of the reinstatement of the ban on referral fees.

Rule against partnerships

24. Professor Stephen also provided comment on the Faculty's rules against partnerships. He noted that much of the discussion within the Group had been hypothetical because of the lack of empirical evidence. Professor Stephen went over the table he had inserted which set out the choice of organisational form and the economic factors likely to affect the choice of organisational form. He commented that Faculty Services Ltd was likely to produce economies of scale for members, although there was no systematic evidence to confirm this. It allowed 450 advocates to share costs, which represented greater economies of scale than applied to even the largest firms of solicitors in Scotland. This was, therefore, not a simple comparison between group and sole practice. He also noted that economies of scope meant that the ability of a single firm to provide two services could be cheaper than two firms providing single services.

25. Professor Stephen advised the Group that it was his view that if there were no restrictions, the choice of organisational form would come down to attitudes towards risk. There would be a trade off between specialism and economies of risk spreading: this would differ as between advocates who were specialists and those who were generalists. Professor Stephen suggested that it would be helpful if more research was undertaken to judge the magnitude of the differences and information on the degree of specialisation of advocates.

26. Professor Stephen went on to say that if there were no restrictions on the movement of practitioners between the branches of the legal profession, the rule against partnerships would not seem to interfere with competition as it would be a voluntary restriction imposed by a group who wished to practice in a particular form. There should however be competition between the regulatory bodies as well as within the profession itself.

27. Professor Stephen believed that the rule against mixed doubles had an impact on competition, rather than the rule against partnerships.

28. The Faculty welcomed the discussion and agreed to provide information on the overheads of Faculty Services Ltd and the Faculty. Advocates contributed a percentage of their income to both. The percentage total for last year was 13% and for this year it was 12.5%. The Faculty did not keep information on travel or other expenses. The Faculty noted that advocates had access to the finest law library in the United Kingdom which had on line facilities and was open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. Through the Advocates' Library they could also access the National Library of Scotland.

29. The Faculty asked whether, if either the restrictions on transfer or the mixed doubles rules was abolished, that would remove the restriction on competition, or whether both would have to be abolished. Professor Stephen considered that both would have to be abolished unless further evidence indicated otherwise. The costs, including the opportunity costs of moving between branches of the profession, would influence practitioners. Professor Stephen did not believe these costs to be high. The rule on mixed doubles was an impediment to solicitor advocates reaching the equivalent of senior counsel.

30. The point was made that the analysis was of restrictions affecting lawyers' choice of organisational form rather than of consumers having access to the lawyer of their choice. If there were no restrictions competitive force would filter through, but only in the long term.

31. The Society too welcomed the discussion and agreed to provide evidence. Their cost of time survey would be relevant and it was noted that on average two thirds of a firms' income went on overheads and a third was earnings. As at 1 November there were 1255 legal firms and 572 sole practitioners.

32. The Group discussed how much more work should be done on the paper. It was agreed that the information from the Faculty and Society would be useful for this stage, but that any other follow up work should be considered for inclusion in Phase 2. Information on implicit as well as explicit restrictions on movement between the two branches of the profession would be helpful. An examination of why solicitor advocates had been slow to take up rights of audience in civil cases could also usefully be explored in Phase 2.

33. OFT suggested that the Group might consider the profession's capacity for capitalisation. In England and Wales partnerships attracted capital in a way that barristers' chambers did not. OFT accepted Professor Stephen's approach but considered that it was important to be comprehensive if restrictions were being compared and asked if restrictions on litigation, and the restriction on individuals instructing advocates direct, should be included. The Faculty did not consider that capitalisation was an argument that could be explored as advocates did not work in chambers and that the absence of responsibility for litigation reduced an advocate's overheads.

34. Professor Stephen considered that so long as clients had an ability to choose a practitioner, the regulation of that practitioner's profession would have an effect on costs and the choice of the individual. The restrictions on organisational form a regulatory body put on its members was another matter. There was no need to remove all regulation so long as an individual could chose who they regarded as the best available practitioner at the right price. The consumer had to be confident that the service would be of equal standing.

35. It was agreed that Professor Stephen would provide an analysis of legal disciplinary practices, including consideration of how the criminal work of solicitor advocates had developed.

Mixed Doubles

36. OFT would consider the Faculty's comments and respond to these.

37. The Executive would consider what further editing of the paper might be required.

RWG 2004/5/1 Rules of court with potential implications for Competition in the Scottish Legal Services Markets

38. It was agreed that Group members would provide written comments on the paper by 31 December.

RWG 2004/5/3 Report on Phase 1 interviews and Phase 2 proposals

39. The transcripts of the interviews were now with the interviewees for agreement. Three potential markets had been identified for further research in Phase 2: advocacy services; wills, trusts and executries; and employment law. It would not be possible to complete all three market studies by March 2005. Therefore the Group agreed that advocacy services would be researched further and the others would be considered if the Executive pursued further research in 2005 beyond the work of the Group. A look at the advocacy services market would include an opportunity to look further at the issue of overheads, solicitor advocates and advocacy services in relation to tribunals, debt and housing. The other markets could be included in the Group's final report as suggestions for future work.

RWG 2004/5/4 Comparative review of rights of audience and rights to conduct litigation

40. The Executive would amend the paper as follows:

40.1 paragraph 1 - to make it clear that individuals could instruct solicitor advocates direct; to include the point that more individuals were representing themselves or using lay representatives and that the latter were not always paid for their services; and to indicate the bodies who had expressed support for commencement of sections 25 to 29 of the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions)(Scotland) Act 1990, namely OFT, the Scottish Consumer Council, the Chartered Institute of Patent Agents and the Association of Commercial Attorneys.

40.2 paragraph 5 - to make it clear that the role of the Scottish Legal Services Ombudsman was in relation to complaints.

40.3 paragraph 6 - to reflect that in-court advisers were not a special case.

41. The SCC was interested in the purpose of the paper as while it provided an interesting comparative exercise they considered that it was not clear how the issue would be taken forward by the Group. They regarded it as an important competition issue which required to be addressed.

42. It was noted that there was no evidence on the numbers of individuals conducting their own cases, but anecdotally there were more and more people representing themselves, particularly in ordinary cause cases. It was suggested that the Executive should consider the research conducted on small claims and also seek more information on in-court advisers. Citizens Advice Scotland had also conducted research into lay representation some years ago : some sheriffs had refused to hear lay representatives in court and others were hostile to their presence. Professor Paterson would provide the relevant research. Elaine Samuel would provide her research on in-court advisers.

RWG 2004/5/5 Content and structure of final report

43. The Executive would amend paragraph 2.2 to include categories of service providers.

44. The Group considered what it had achieved so far and what else was still to be done before the final report in March 2005. It was suggested that because the research had raised more questions than had been expected at the outset, it might be preferable to extend the life of the Group in order to provide a truly informed report for Ministers. It was suggested that an interim report might be the way forward but the counter argument was that this could be an unwelcome distraction. European developments might also influence the timetable. The European Commission had been silent on any follow up to its February 2004 report in which it had requested jurisdictions to respond by the end of the year. If requested to do so the Executive could provide a response based on the work of the Group.

45. It was agreed that it would be vital that the final report should formally assess progress against the Group's terms of reference, purpose and aims.

46. The Group agreed to hold an additional meeting in March 2005.

Any other business

47. The Executive said that the Chartered Institute of Patent Agents had submitted a report on rights of audience for the Group to consider. Since however it had been received only the afternoon before the meeting discussion would be deferred until the January meeting. The Executive would circulate the paper as soon as possible.

48. The Society asked the Group to note that it was concerned about unregulated advisers and that the Clementi review was relevant to this.

49. The Society circulated its draft practice rule on letters of engagement - the Solicitors (Scotland) (Client Communications) Practice Rules 2005. The rule would be before Council for approval on 3 December.

50. The Society circulated a note on the accounting of commission by Scottish solicitors.

Date of next meeting

51. The next meeting of the Working Group would be on 27 January 2005.

Any comments on the note should be sent to :

Legal Services Policy Team
Access to Justice Division
The Scottish Executive Justice Department
Second Floor West
St Andrew's House
Regent Road
Edinburgh
EH1 3DG

ACTION POINTS

1. The Faculty had prepared its paper on advertising and would send it to the Executive.

2. The Executive to circulate a summary of the outstanding action points with the draft minutes.

3. OFT to provide comment on the use of QC as a quality mark and if the system distorts competition.

4. The Executive had written to the Lord President of the Court of Session and Sheriffs Principal seeking authority to interview the auditors of court and would provide an update at the next meeting.

5. The Executive to amend RWG 2004/2/1 Regulatory Framework for Legal Services in Scotland at paragraphs 6, 18.1, 29, 38 and 49 and publish it on the website.

6. SLAB to provide a paragraph for RWG 2004/2/1 on the interaction of the complaints system with legal aid legislation and its ability to take a solicitor to the Scottish Solicitors' Discipline Tribunal.

7. The Executive to consider the implication of rule 1(5) of the Rules of Conduct for Solicitor Advocates 2002 in relation to solicitor advocates being able to appear for the same client with junior counsel but not senior counsel.

8. Having considered rule 1(5), the Executive would review paragraph 13 of RWG 2004/2/2 Professional Rules etc with potential implications for Competition in the Scottish Legal Services Markets.

9. The Executive to consider the implications of the European Commission's decision to fine the Belgian Architects' Association.

10. The Executive to update the Group on the Council of the Law Society of England and Wales' consideration of the ballot of it members which found in favour of the reinstatement of the ban on referral fees.

11. The Faculty to provide information on the overheads of Faculty Services Ltd and the Faculty

12. The Society to provide evidence on overheads.

13. OFT suggested that the Group might consider the professions capacity for capitalisation and the inclusion of other restrictions for comparison for example those on litigation.

14. Professor Stephen to provide an analysis of legal disciplinary practices including considering how the criminal work of solicitor advocates has developed.

15. OFT to consider the Faculty's comment on mixed doubles and respond to these.

16. The Executive to consider how RWG 2004/2/2 should be edited.

17. The Group to provide written comments on RWG 2004/5/1 Rules of court with potential implications for Competition in the Scottish Legal Services Markets by 31 December.

18. The Group agreed that advocacy services would be researched further.

19. The Executive to amend RWG 2004/5/4 Comparative review of rights of audience and rights to conduct litigation at paragraphs 1, 5 and 6.

20. The Executive to consider the research conducted on small claims and also contact the in-court advisers.

21. Professor Paterson to provide the relevant research on representation.

22. Elaine Samuel to provide her research on the in-court advisers.

23. The Executive would amend paragraph 2.2 of RWG 2004/5/5 Content and structure of final report to include categories of service providers

24. The Executive to take a formal look at progress against the Group's purpose and aims.

25. The Executive to arrange an additional meeting in March 2005.

26. The Executive to circulate the paper from CIPA.

Page updated: Thursday, February 10, 2005