Minutes of the 14th meeting of the Freshwater Fisheries Forum Steering Group held in Conference Room 004, Pentland House, 47 Robbs Loan, Edinburgh at 10.30 on 14 November 2006
In attendance:
Gordon Brown - SEERAD (Chairman)
David Dunkley - SEERAD
Richard Slaski - SEERAD
Manson Wright - SEERAD - Part Meeting
Christine McGregor - SEERAD - Part Meeting
Donna Easterlow - SEERAD - Part Meeting
Mabel McDowall - SEERAD (Secretariat)
Dafydd Evans - Environment Agency
Andrew Wallace - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards
Jonathan Swift - Association of Scottish Stillwater Fisheries
Roger Brook - Rivers and Fisheries Trusts of Scotland
Seymour Monro - Atlantic Salmon Trust
David Bassett - British Trout Association
Willie Miller - Consultative Committee on Protection Orders
Peter Maitland - Fish Conservation Centre
John Armstrong - Fisheries Research Services
Alastair Stephen - Institute of Fisheries Management
Craig Campbell - NFU Scotland
George Holdsworth - Salmon and Trout Association
Willie Shearer - Salmon Net Fishing Association of Scotland
Bob Ritchie - Salmon Net Fishing Association of Scotland
Ronnie Picken - Scottish Anglers National Association
Callum Sinclair - Scottish Environmental Protection Agency
Ron Woods - Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling
Colin Bean - Scottish Natural Heritage
Miranda Lindsay - Scottish Rural Property and Business Association
Dr Gill Hartley - Scottish Agricultural Science Agency - Part Meeting
Dr Rhys Bullman - Scottish Natural Heritage - Part Meeting
1. Introduction
The Chairman welcomed the Steering Group (SG) members and introduced Dr Dafydd Evans, Head of Fisheries from the Environment Agency and Donna Easterlow, Principal Research Officer from SEERAD. He also mentioned that Dr Gill Hartley from the Scottish Agricultural Science Agency and Dr Rhys Bullman from Scottish Natural Heritage would be joining the group later in the day for the session on predation.
He advised that the main focus of the day would be the draft Freshwater Fisheries Strategy with the group taking time to reflect on the work undertaken to date as well as looking at the priorities for action in the coming weeks.
2. Apologies:
Brian Davidson - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards, Sarah Bayley - RAFTS, Stuart Baxter - SEERAD and Neil Swanson - SEERAD
3. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
Minutes have been agreed electronically and posted on the web site.
4. Matters Arising
4.1 Disinfection of electro-fishing/netting equipment
Guidance has been produced and SEERAD are in discussions with FRS to agree the final wording.
4.2 Regulating the introduction of fish in inland waters
Discussed under item 5.
4.3 Economic Value of Salmon Netting
It was generally recognised that netting should be acknowledged in the framework plan and that it would be useful to have a comparison on the value of net caught salmon compared with rod caught salmon. It was highlighted, however that netting, which has been in existence for centuries, is now in decline and that rod caught salmon now account for the biggest percentage of salmon caught. Making comparisons in monetary terms may not be best way of assessing value.
It was agreed that the Economic Sub Group would look at the issue further and that the issue should be discussed further at the January meeting.
Action - Economic Sub Group to investigate further and item to be put on the agenda for the January meeting
4.4 Sea Angling and Legislation in Relation to the Framework Plan
The advice from Sea Fisheries Division is that there is a public right to fish in the sea. There is also a public right to fish for freshwater fish in rivers that are both tidal and navigable. Concern was expressed, however, that there was a grey area regarding nature reserves and access to river estuaries through them.
Action - SEERAD to investigate further and report back to the January meeting
5. Regulating the Introduction of Fish in Inland Waters
Arrangements have been made for a meeting, with a number of SG members, to take place on 24 November and with the Tweed Commissioners on 17 November (now that the Tweed Order is in place) to discuss the issue further. A report on the outcome of these meetings will be circulated to the SG members in readiness for discussions at the January meeting.
Action - SEERAD to set out options for consideration by the end of December '06 and circulate to SG members. Final paper to be presented and discussed at the January meeting.
6. Framework Plan
The Chairman thanked members for the very valuable work that had been undertaken to date. Excellent progress has been made which has resulted in the first draft of the framework plan being produced.
Richard Slaski gave a short presentation outlining the points for discussion, priorities for action and also other work that required to be tackled before the next meeting.
The general feeling was that the process of using sub groups had been the best way forward and that an excellent, well structured draft document had been produced.
41 priorities for action (PFA's) had been identified, although others may come to light as discussions progress, and it was agreed that, because of the number and overlapping of items that the best way forward would be to look at the list and group associated PFA's into clusters.
The importance of being clear about priorities was highlighted as well as the need to take into account the pressures and opportunities that would arise with the development of the plan. Also identified was the need to ensure that there were mechanisms in place to be able to measure success, make sure that outcomes were delivered, that there was a clear review process. To assist with this process it would be essential to make sure that priorities, objectives and outcomes were specific, measurable, achievable, realistic and time bound (SMART).
With regard to social principles the group were advised that there may be additional items to take into consideration i.e. equality duties which would tie in with the social aspects of the plan. SANA felt that the Scottish Disabled Fly Fishing Association (SDFFA), which is now part of SANA, would be an appropriate body to provide a lead on issues relating to disabled angling and access. SANA will confirm that after consultation with officials of the SDFFA.
Another point raised was that there was relatively little in the document relating to "fish" and that the main theme running through the document concentrated on anglers. The group were reminded that without fish there would be no angling. It was suggested that before future plans are developed and enhanced that the group should look at what we have at the moment, take stock and consider fish from an environmental, economic and social point of view.
The suggestion was made that, to help develop public understanding, it would be useful to identify the source of evidence on which issues were based i.e. market/other research and include details at the beginning of the plan.
If the information was available it was suggested that it would be useful to know how many non-salmonoid fish there are, where they are and where do we want them to be. It was intimated that this will be looked at during the development of the document.
The group were asked to consider and identify 'Lead Bodies' and 'Lead People' who would be involved in talking issues forward and the group were asked provide suggestions. Several members intimated that they would be happy to take on the 'Lead' roles, others advised that they would be happy to take part and be involved in the discussions, but because of resource issues would not be in a position to take on 'Lead' roles.
It was accepted that there should be scope for members to dip into discussions on issues as necessary, therefore action groups should not be too rigid. It was also suggested that the Angling Tourism Development Group could possibly act, where appropriate, as a 'Lead Body'. More thought will have to be given to this issue.
It was highlighted that one of the biggest problems would be to communicate with Anglers 'on the ground' and a strategy for this may need to be developed. It was recognised that it would be crucial that there was two-way communication and that it would be important to make sure that constituents are clear about the work being undertaken. This however, could be difficult as not all anglers are affiliated to an association.
It was agreed that the plan of action should be as follows:
1. Richard Slaski (RS) to work on preparing the 'clusters' of the points for action (PFA's)
- RS to e-mail to SG members and make any modifications
- SG to help identify 'lead bodies' and 'lead people'
- RS to provide a new draft of the plan for discussion on 25/1/07
- One further round of sub groups to be held before Christmas to discuss and agree final text for their part of the whole document.
- Sub Groups to consider 'their' relevant cluster of PFA's or perhaps all of the PFA's.
- RS to work on 'project evaluation' sheet for some of the PFA's before 25/1 to evaluate if this approach is helpful.
- RS to work with colleagues in FFA to start to draft some text for the Governance section (some new PFA cluster/worklines might emerge from this activity).
- RS to look at incorporating Communications and Research Priorities into the new PFA clusters.
- RS to work with FFA and others to expand the 'Context' section of the document. FFA to liaise with groups such as SEPA on this, in the first instance.
Action - as outlined above
7. Predation
Presentations were given by SEERAD advisers from the Scottish Agricultural Science Agency (SASA), Fisheries Research (FRS) and Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) outlining their roles in the piscivorous birds and seals licensing process. SEERAD also gave an overview of their Policy role. Copies of the presentations and associated papers will be posted on the web site.
Action - SEERAD to make arrangements for presentations and associated papers to be put on the web site
The purpose of the discussion was to explain the procedures for dealing with applications for licences to shoot/control predatory birds and seals. SEERAD believed there was a need to clarify the opportunities and constraints surrounding the statutory arrangements.
A lively discussion took place with the following questions/issues being raised.
Analysis of birds shot. - Where requested, carcases may be sent to FRS for analysis of stomach contents.
If there is no shortage of cormorants why are they on the protected list? The problems identified in England and Wales relate to the cormorant sub-species Phalacrocorax carbo sinensis, a continental European sub-species that is increasing in numbers in England and Wales. In Scotland, the cormorant present is Phalacrocorax carbo carbo. Cormorants are only a problem in winter with Scotland having a fairly stable population.
What is the current position in relation to May shootings? SEERAD, SASA and SNH are in discussion in relation to May licensing, but no decision has been made. It was pointed out that advisers could not recommend this course of action until May counts and nest site surveys have been undertaken and data made available and analysed.
What right do RSPB have to input into bird counts? RSPB are not automatically involved in bird counts. District Salmon Fishery Boards do not always have the manpower resources to carry out counts and the suggestion made was to tap into other resources to assist with counts. In the past, RSPB, along with other organisations, were sometimes involved in assisting fisheries with bird counts, however they have not been involved with counts in recent years. It was stressed that RSPB have no input into the licensing process. Boards would have the choice as to whether RSPB are asked to assist with counts or not. It was highlighted that, before submitting an application to shoot birds that counts should be undertaken and the information submitted with the application. A number of different methods are used depending on the type of fishery.
Would targeting pinch points be a good way of dealing with predators? Scaring especially near hydro dams where fish are highly vulnerable was considered to be a good area to target.
The point was made that predators usually take the least fit fish and it could be that those fish are being targeted. It would be useful to investigate if this was the case. FRS advised that they have information on damaged fish and how they survive. It was also pointed out that the weather can play an important role as fish are easier prey in dry weather.
Advisers were asked whether any work has been undertaken to analyse the stomach contents of seals and dolphins from deep water estuaries. There has been some analysis of the stomach contents of seals, by the Sea Mammal Research Unit, but very few dolphin carcases are available for analysis.
One of the roles of SNH was to advise on whether there will be an impact on a designated site (SPA/SAC) As some SACs are designated for salmon, could this not lead to conflict in relation to favouring one species over another? The group were advised that the obligation in Article 6.2 of the Habitats Directive and the EC Article 6 guidance would appear to make it implicit that each of the qualifying features should not be allowed to deteriorate (including decrease in extent). In their Article 6 Guidance, however, the European Commission also make a clear statement that one qualifier may be favoured over another in setting the site's conservation objectives. However, it has been agreed that where favouring of one feature over another is proposed, this should first be approved by the Scottish Executive before any implementation takes place.
Advisers were also asked why there were so few applications. SANA and others felt that the system was too complicated and seen as a lost cause, or all too difficult. On the other hand Jonathan Swift advised that he had been through the application process on two occasions and had found it fairly straightforward with helpful advice available from the advisers.
The group were advised that the majority of applications were successful and that guidance was available to assist applicants with the completion of the application form. Site visits, by advisers, are often arranged for first time applications and SEERAD can be contacted for advice and guidance at any time.
Action - SEERAD to make arrangements for guidance to be circulated to SG members. Update - guidance circulated - action cleared
The point was made, by SANA that anglers are now spotting cormorants inland in areas where they had not previously been seen. SASA advised that they were not aware of any breeding populations, apart from possibly in the Dumfries and Galloway area, and would be interested in knowing about any others.
SANA also advised that they were delighted with the work that is going on in the Seals Forum. They advised that main problem they have is with bird predation and cormorants, in particular with the Linlithgow Loch and Loch Kindar now experiencing similar problems to Loch Leven. They warned that because of Loch Leven there could be a problem with other fisheries particularly the Lake of Menteith having to cope with increased angling pressure.
The Chairman thanked, SASA, FRS and SNH for their contributions. He also suggested that there may be an opportunity to develop concerns relating to predation through the framework plan.
SG members were advised that they had an important role to play in raising awareness among their members about the application process as well as the guidance and help available to assist applicants. He also stressed the importance of supplying sufficient evidence of damage to fisheries to support applications.
8. A.O.B
The Chairman thanked Dafydd Evans for coming along to the meeting and for his valuable contribution.
8.1 Date of the next Forum
The chairman highlighted the importance of making sure that the draft framework plan was sufficiently developed to enable it to be unveiled at a future Forum. He emphasised that it would be presented for consultation rather than approval.
It was agreed that the next Forum would be provisionally arranged for 14 March 2007 at the National Piping Centre, 30-34 McPhater Street, Cowcaddens, Glasgow. Update - Forum to be re-arranged for a later date
6.2 Future Steering Group Meetings
Steering Group - 5th January 2007 - be held on 25th January 2007 at the SASA Building, 1 Roddinglaw Road, Edinburgh at 10.30 am. Update - meeting postponed till late February.