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Steering Group - Minutes 5

Minutes of the 5th Meeting of the Freshwater Fisheries Forum Steering Group held at Pentland House, Edinburgh, on Thursday 25 November 2004.

In attendance:

Gordon Brown - SEERAD (Chairman)

David Dunkley - SEERAD

Shauna Cranney- SEERAD (Secretariat)

Andrew Wallace - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards

Brian Davidson - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards

George Holdsworth - Association of Scottish Stillwater Fisheries

Seymour Monro - Atlantic Salmon Trust

Jane Davis - British Trout Association

Willie Miller - Consultative Committee on Protection Orders

Professor Peter Maitland - Fish Conservation Centre

John Armstrong - Fisheries Research Services

Dr Alastair Stephen - Institute of Fisheries Management

Jane Wright - Rivers and Fishery Trusts

Robert Ritchie - Salmon Net Fishing Association of Scotland

Ronnie Picken - Scottish Anglers National Association and Salmon and Trout Association (Scotland)

Derek Keith - Scottish Campaign for Public Angling

Colin Innes - Salmon and Trout Association

Callum Sinclair - Scottish Environment Protection Agency

Ron Woods - Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling

David Howell - Scottish Natural Heritage

Miranda Lindsay- Scottish Rural Property and Business Association

Craig Campbell - National Farmers Union (Scotland)

Introduction

1. The Chairman welcomed the two new members, Jane Davis (British Trout Association) and Craig Campbell (National Farmers Union Scotland) to the Steering Group. The Chairman also informed the meeting that Graeme Waugh's replacement, Manson Wright would be joining the Steering Group for lunch. It was also reported that Miranda Lindsay would be the permanent representative from the Scottish Rural Property and Business Association.

2. The Chairman proposed the following changes to the Agenda:

  • The item on the Freshwater Fisheries Forum, under Matters Arising should be moved to item number 5 on the agenda as a separate issue; and
  • Infectious Salmon Anaemia should be added to A.O.B.

Apologies

4. Apologies were received from Sarah Bayley (Rivers and Fisheries Trusts).

Minutes of Previous Meeting

5. The Steering Group agreed Mr Gardiner's proposed amendment to the previous minutes:

'Ian Calcott of SANA advised the group that he was representing grayling interests and relayed that the Grayling Society (through Alan Ayre) would like a close season for grayling. Ian was asked by the Chairman to provide the rationale behind why one was felt needed'.

Action - SEERAD to put approved minutes on the SE website.

Matters Arising

Task Matrix

6. The Consultative Committee on Protection Orders suggested a date should be put on each new version of the Task Matrix. This proposal was agreed by the Steering Group.

Action - Secretariat to insert date on each new version of the Task Matrix

Highlands and Islands Aquaculture Forum

7. The Chairman reported back to the Group on the Highlands and Islands Aquaculture Forum (HIAF) and informed the meeting of the key issues that had arisen from the forum including:

· Protection of wild stocks;

· Sea lice control; and

· Fish disease control.

Action - Chairman to continue to report back on the work of HIAF

Bill Issues

Section 30 Equivalent for fish movements (SFFF SG 5-1)

8. David Dunkley introduced the paper on the regulation of the movement of salmon and freshwater fish between inland waters in Scotland. The paper provided some objectives on this issue which can be put to the Forum in February.

9. The Rivers and Fisheries Trusts asked if Option 2 on the document included non-notifiable diseases, as there was currently a problem with this issue.

Actions:

  • The Association of West Coast Fisheries Trusts to submit a paper outlining the problems currently with non-notifiable diseases and outline reasons for the need for new legislation on this, and also ways in which it may be avoided.
  • Steering Group to submit written comments on SFFF SG 5-1 to Secretariat by 9 December
  • Secretariat to produce a focusing paper on this issue based on the comments received, to be circulated to the Steering Group and then presented to the Forum.

Close Times

10. The Steering Group discussed the paper (SFFF SG 5-2) submitted by Alan Ayre, outlining the case for having close times for Grayling in Scotland.

11. It was reported that District Salmon Fishery Boards (DSFBs) wished to retain the weekly close time for rod and line fishing, and that the Grayling anglers were in favour of close time for Grayling running from 15 March until 15 June.

12. The Chairman concluded that the best way forward for the issue of close times was to insert an enabling provision in the forthcoming Bill. It was also agreed that the arguments for a specified Grayling close time as they currently stand would need to be examined further to determine if the dates proposed were the most appropriate.

13. The issue of the Sunday close time was discussed again by the Group. Many of the members were in agreement that there was no real need for a change in the legislation here and it was commented that it would only increase exploitation.

Actions:

  • The Chairman asked for any other comments on this issue to be forwarded to Secretariat before 9 December. Secretariat to summarise comments and circulate to members before the Forum.
  • The Chairman asked for a volunteer from this group to feed back conclusions and directions on this area to the Forum. Volunteer to contact Secretariat by 9 December.

Bill Issues

Management Structures

14. The Chairman thanked the Management Subgroup for the producing the paper (SFFF SG 5-3) on Management Structures options and invited Andrew Wallace to discuss the Sub Group's findings. The Steering Group were reminded that there were no solid conclusions regarding the preferred option. The paper had not been discussed with the respective organisation members and was therefore asked to be kept as a draft paper for discussion at the moment.

15. The Chairman summarised that the Steering Group members were broadly supportive of with the "Unitary Structure" option, and that this aspiration required input from both the public and private sectors. This option would require the establishment of these "Unitary Structures" on a nationwide basis. They would have to cover all species, and be catchment based and big enough to be viable, but local enough to retain identity. Some members of the Steering Group agreed that there should be around 20-25 of these 'Unitary Structures' in Scotland and this number worked well with the geography of Scotland. The Unitary Structures would aim to develop management plans that encompasses sustainability along with accessibility. The legal basis of the 'Unitary Structures' would be very important and help determine how prescriptive any legislation would be.

16. It was also estimated that the annual funding requirement for these bodies would be about £8 million. The Chairman asked if these thoughts could be brought to the forum. The Chairman stated that this proposal is possible, but complex. The concern lay with delivering this aspiration in the time available for this Bill. The formal consultation process would need to be ready to take place in 9 months.

Funding

17. The discussion on funding began with the issue of rod licensing. There was some disagreement from members of the Steering Group on the need for rod licensing. Some members reported opposition in Scotland to their introduction, even if prices were set at a moderate level. Concern was also expressed over how a rod licensing system could be enforced. In contrast, other members indicated that there was a lot of support for rod licensing in Scotland. The Chairman stated that this issue would need to be put to public consultation. A suggestion was made that rod licensing should be looked at by external auditors who are neutral to the subject.

18. The Chairman stated that in the short to medium term there was no public money available to fund the introduction of rod licensing, or for the unitary authorities. The public sector spending review had taken place in the summer of 2004, and the Scottish Executive spending plans are now fixed until 2008. The Chairman advised that where initiatives relied on an element of public funding, it was unlikely that they could be included in the Bill proposed for 2006, but, rather, would have to wait for other opportunities possibly in the next Parliament. This should not derail anything, but it would mean a longer timescale for implementation.

19. It was suggested that as a Group, there should be further discussion as to how to evolve a better fisheries management situation within the legislation currently in place. It was agreed that it may be sensible for drafting future legislation to have trial run within the existing legislation.

20. The Chairman asked if a slightly amended Management Structure paper could be brought to the forum. Andrew Wallace asked whether the Steering Group should take the conclusions of the subgroup paper one step further and put the suggestion to the Forum as an idea for a possible solution. It was agreed that the Management Sub Group would amend the paper to present to the Forum.

Action: SEERAD to send a note to Minister regarding the funding issue Management Sub-group to amend the paper to bring to the forum

Access

21. SEERAD reminded the Steering Group that commitment was given after the proposal in the publication 'Scotland's Freshwater Fish and Fisheries: Securing their future', that the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1976 would be repealed and replaced with something that covers the whole of Scotland and protects fish along with owners rights and anglers' aspirations.

SFFF SG 5-4 (a) "Aim -To create a replacement for the 1976 Act that will increase access without compromising sustainable fisheries"

22. Willie Miller presented his paper on Access to the Steering Group. He explained that he and Derek Keith had submitted separate papers as they could not reach agreement towards the latter part of their discussions. Willie Miller indicated that his preferred option was number 7; 'leave the ownership in the hands of the current owners, but create an incentive to persuade the owners to participate in a management and access agreement'. This option would encompass the fundamental principles of the 1976 Act and would aim to get rid of the factors which cause problems within that.

SFFF SG 5-4 (b, c, and d) (b) -"Simply repeal the 1976 Act and revert to position before 1976", (c) - "Make it a criminal offence to fish all Scotland without legal right/permission" and (c) - "Scottish Anglers Trust"

23. Derek Keith circulated 3 papers on access and gave the group an outline of their content. There was some disagreement from the group regarding some of the content of the papers.

24. Derek Keith also suggested that a Scottish Anglers Trust could be set up. This would be a corporate body established by Parliament to administer freshwater fishing rights in Scotland. This Trust would be eligible for financial assistance. The Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling agreed that the development of an Anglers Trust was an interesting proposal, and pointed out that it would have to be involved in fisheries management in both public and private waters. The Salmon and Trout Association thought that spending money on bureaucracy in the form of an Anglers Trust would not be a good idea and stated that the availability of fishing in Scotland is currently very strong. It was also commented that there is no public money to fund the compensation of rights which were considered likely to be substantial.

25. In conclusion, there was agreement that problems existed with the Freshwater and Salmon Fisheries (Scotland) Act 1976, but not everyone agreed that it was fundamentally flawed. It was agreed that more investigation was needed to see where it is going wrong. It was also acknowledged that some areas were working well.

26. The Chairman suggested that there was a need for real evidence to justify changes to the 1976 Act. He questioned how the Steering Group would gain that evidence and who would collect it. SEPA suggested that as none of the Steering Group are neutral to the process of Protection Orders, the only way to move on this would be to have someone neutral to carry out the assessment. The ASFB agreed that an independent objective review was needed to collect this evidence. It was agreed by the Group that they should wait and read the report on Protection Orders that Peter Maitland had written and then decide if an independent assessment was needed.

27. The Steering Group agreed that they all wanted the same end but differed over how to achieve it. It was agreed that the Steering Group would have a set of principles ready to report on for the Freshwater Fisheries Forum on 4 February.

Actions:

  • Ron Woods to circulate the paper on Protection Orders
  • Peter Maitland to circulate the review of Protection Orders that he had prepared 5 years ago.
  • Secretariat to pull the above information together and see how it fits

4.3 Emergency Slaughter of Stocks

28. The Chairman introduced Dave Wyman and Neil Sinclair from the Aquaculture Health and Welfare Branch of FFA and stated that they have a special interest in this topic as they are responsible for organising the contingency planning process for Gyrodactylus salaris (Gs).

29. Dave Wyman said that with regard to Gs, the powers currently available come under the Diseases of Fish Act 1937 and 1983. This piece of legislation enables the Department to apply controls to Fish Farms and water systems should diseases occur. This would control the movements of live fish and eggs and it would allow the movement of dead fish from the river system, except in the case of water authorities.

30. Dave Wyman also stated that there was no provision in the current legislation for the payment of compensation, but this may be another issue for the Bill.

31. Neil Sinclair stated that there was a workshop organised on 16 February 2005, to discuss the Gs contingency plan and all of the issues raised today would also be discussed there. It was agreed that the issue of compensation would need a lot of thought and legal advice.

Collection of scientific Data

32. ASFB stated that this issue had over run from the 'Scotland's Freshwater Fish and Fisheries. Securing their Future' document and asked if this issue was going to be dealt with in the Bill process. SEERAD informed the meeting that this issue should hopefully be dealt with before then, as the provision already existed under other legislation. It was agreed that there was no need to put it in the Task Matrix as District Salmon Fishery Boards already had powers to collect information under the Salmon Conservation Act 2001. However it was reported that there was a strong argument to expand it to other species for the Bill.

Action - Secretariat to put in the Collection of scientific data for other species in the Task Matrix

Freshwater Fisheries Forum

33. The Chairman stated that the main issues that needed to be put on the agenda for the Freshwater Fisheries Forum included the following:

  • Management
  • Access
  • Miscellaneous (including: use of gaffs, tailers, knotted nets and pike gags; regulation of fish movements; use of live fish as bait; annual/ weekly close times; and use of multiple rods and rod rests)

34. It was agreed that there should be separate presentations on Management Structures and Access and the other issues should be combined for one presentation under miscellaneous items. The Chairman suggested that the Forum should be used for reporting on the aspirations discussed at today's meeting and also to explain the timing issue. A voting system could be used at the end of each presentation to test for the level of support for all the issues.

Action - Volunteers for giving presentations to come back to Secretariat

6. AOB

SFFF SG 5-5 - 'Letter regarding the use of Pike Gags'

35. The letter regarding the ban on the use of Pike Gags was acknowledged by the Steering Group. Scottish Federation of Coarse Angling agreed to put a note back to Secretariat on this matter.

Action - Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling to put a note to Secretariat on the issue of Pike Gags

Infectious Salmon Anaemia (ISA)

36. The Chairman reported that FFA had issued a press release on Friday 19 November 2004 after it became evident that there were signs of an Infectious Salmon Anaemia (ISA) infection on a fish farm in the Western Isles. The Chairman assured everyone that it was not an outbreak; it was just signs of an infection. It was reported that controls had to be put on that farm and another 7 fish farms within the control zone.

Date and Place of Next Meeting

37. The Steering group agreed that there should be one more meeting before the Freshwater Fisheries Forum in February. This meeting would be to discuss the presentations for the forum and would have a narrow agenda.

10.00am, 17 January, Strathearn House, Perth

Page updated: Friday, July 8, 2005