The Scottish Government

Minutes of the 3rd Meeting of the Freshwater Fisheries Forum Steering Group held at Strathearn House, Broxden, Perth, on Friday 27 August 2004.

In attendance:

Gordon Brown - SEERAD (Chairman)

David Dunkley - SEERAD

Graeme Waugh - SEERAD

Shauna Cranney- SEERAD (Secretariat)

Dr John Armstrong - Fisheries Research Services

George Holdsworth - Association of Scottish Stillwater Fisheries

David Howell - Scottish Natural Heritage

Colin Innes - Salmon and Trout Association (Scotland)

Derek Keith - Scottish Campaign for Public Angling

Professor Peter Maitland - Fish Conservation Centre

Willie Miller- Consultative Committee on Protection Orders

Callum Sinclair - Scottish Environment Protection Agency

Major General Seymour Monro - Atlantic Salmon Trust

Ronnie Picken - Scottish Anglers National Association

Brian Davidson - Institute of Fisheries Management

Andrew Wallace - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards

Ron Woods - Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling

Jane Wright - Association of West Coast Fisheries Trusts

Introduction

1. Gordon Brown informed the Steering Group members that he would now be acting as Chairman to allow David Dunkley to participate more actively in the discussions.

Apologies

2. Apologies had been received from Robert Ritchie - Salmon Net Fishing Association of Scotland; Alastair Stephen, representing the Institute of Fisheries Management - Brian Davidson deputised for Alastair Stephen; Sarah Bayley - Association of West Coast Fisheries Trusts and Dr Colin Bull representing east coast fisheries trusts.

Minutes of the Previous Meetings (1st and 2nd)

3. The following change to the wording under point 5 of the minutes of the 2nd Steering Group meeting was submitted by George Holdsworth; "the ASSF stated that it represented all types of commercial stillwater fisheries". This change was accepted by the Steering Group. The minutes of the 1st and 2nd meetings were approved.

SNH indicated that they had not received a copy of the responses for the Green Paper - 'Scotland's freshwater fish and fisheries: Securing their future'. This was one of the action points from the first Steering Group meeting.

Action - SEERAD to put approved minutes on the Scottish Executive Web site

- SEERAD to send SNH a copy of the Summary of responses for the Green Paper

Matters Arising

Task Matrix/ Status Report (SFFF SG 3-1)

4. The Chairman thanked Andrew Wallace for his role in putting together the Task Matrix. The Group agreed that the Task Matrix provided a timeline to work to and would be useful in showing progress on each topic.

5. The Group agreed that the following issues should be added to the Task Matrix:

· Conservation of coarse fish stocks;

· Management Structures; and

· Funding.

6. It was suggested that the Task Matrix should be divided into three headings; Management Structures, Access, and Miscellaneous items. This would help the debate to be more structured.

Action - SEERAD to update the Task Matrix, dividing the issues into three headings.

- Steering Group to send suggestions for issues arising under the miscellaneous section by 3 September

- SEERAD to add the emergence of saltwater (mullet and bass) fish in Scotland

to the Task Matrix

- SEERAD to have suggested timings ready before all Steering Group meetings

- SEERAD to post the Task Matrix on the website

Paragraph outlining who members represent

7. The Chairman thanked the members of the Steering Group who had already submitted the paragraph outlining who their organisations represent and asked those who had not done so to do so within this week.

Action - Steering Group members to email paragraph to SEERAD by 3 September

- SEERAD to post members information on the website

Minutes of other Fora

8. The Chairman reported that the other two relevant fora where fisheries Bill proposals would be discussed were: The Highlands Aquaculture Forum and the Scottish Inshore Fisheries Advisory Group. The notes of these meetings would be available to the Steering Group.

Action.- SEERAD to invite Gabby Pieraccini to a future Steering Group meeting to describe inshore fisheries proposals

- Chairman undertook to report back on proposals developed at the Highlands

Aquaculture Forum

Representation of the British Trout Farmers Restocking Association (BTFRA) and the Scottish Rural Property and Business Association (SRPBA).

9. It was suggested at the last Steering Group meeting that a representative from the British Trout Farmers Restocking Association (BTFRA) should be invited to future Steering Group meetings. SEERAD reported that they had looked for information on the BTFRA on the internet, and had found no BTFRA website but did find references to BTFRA in respect of one fish farm on other websites. It was agreed that the British Trout Association should be the body invited to attend.

10. It was suggested that it would be useful to invite representatives of the land owners who would be affected by issues such as access to future meetings. A suggestion was made to contact the National Farmers Union (Scotland)(NFU(S)) and the Scottish RPBA.

11. SCAPA objected to the SRPBA being invited to future meetings. However, the rest of the Steering Group felt that it was important that these Groups were invited.

Action - SEERAD to contact NFU(S) and SRPBA and invite them to future Steering Group meetings

- SEERAD to invite a representative from the BTA to future meetings

Representation for East Coast Fishery Trusts

12. The Chairman reported that due to other work commitments, Colin Bull would no longer be representing the East Coast Fishery Trusts interests. The Group agreed to invite Bob Laughton (Spey District Salmon Fishery Board) to replace Colin Bull as the representative for this Group.

Action - SEERAD to circulate agendas ASAP for future Steering Group meetings to permit members to decide on requirement for their attendance.

Communicating the Group's messages

13. The possibility of obtaining Scottish Executive media training was discussed at the last Steering Group meeting. The Group was informed that this training is only available for Scottish Executive staff.

14. It was also reported that the Scottish Executive Press Office could only be used by the Group when the Press Releases had a SEERAD lead. In general, all press releases giving the views of the Group would require full approval from the Steering Group before they were issued.

Link to discussion forum on members' organisations web pages

15. It was agreed that the Steering Group should stimulate discussion on the electronic discussion forum. It was suggested that members should put links to the discussion forum on their respective organisation's websites. A number of those present indicated that this had already been done.

16. There was some discussion about how the comments posted on the discussion forum should be used by the group. The Chairman suggested that the Secretariat should summarise responses from the discussion forum, and then circulate to the Steering Group before meetings.

Action - SEERAD to issue the full web address for the Discussion forum to the Steering Group

- SEERAD to summarise discussion forum responses and circulate to Steering Group members prior to meetings

Bill issues

Legislative options for angling methods (SFFF SG 3-2)

17. A paper on the legislative options for angling was presented by Ron Woods. The paper described the situation in England and Wales, and how angling methods were regulated by Environment Agency byelaws. Ron Woods also presented a matrix showing how Environment Agency regulations set different limits on the number of rods that can be used for coarse and game fishing in different waterways.

Rod Numbers

18. Following substantial discussion, some Steering Group members thought that the regulation of the use of multiple rods should be left to local management level. There were concerns raised regarding the enforceability aspect of introducing multiple rods and the difficulty in distinguishing between the different types of angling.

19. The Group also discussed the possibility of having one set of regulations for game angling and one set for coarse angling. A paper (SFFF 3-6) was produced and circulated for discussion at the meeting.

Action - Steering Group members to provide responses to SFFF 3 -6 by 3 September

The use of Live Fish as Bait

20. To try to focus the debate on this issue, 3 options for discussion were proposed:

· An outright ban;

· Restricting the use of live fish as bait to waters from which the bait has been caught; or

· Relying on movement controls and a code of practice on the use of live fish as bait.

21. The Chairman asked the Steering Group for their views on this issue. The table below shows each organisation's view on this:

22. It was agreed that the Steering Group should be aware of the possible welfare implications of this issue. There were also concerns about the ability to enforce a scheme where the use of live bait is restricted to the use of the fish from catchments from which they had been caught.

Action - AWCFT to consult members on the use of live fish as bait

- SEERAD to meet with the Animal Health and Welfare Division to examine wider animal welfare implications

Information on Section 30 of the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975 (SFFF SG 3-3)

23. It was reported that there were limited powers in Scotland to control the movements of fish between catchments.

24. The Steering Group had been provided with a paper on Section 30 of the 1975 Act, outlining the situation in England and Wales on fish movements between catchments. The document highlighted some of the failings of Section 30 including:

· Enforceability;

· Addressing supply side factors; and

· Addressing the people who put the fish in the water.

25. The Steering Group agreed that, in the first instance, a definition of what species were native and non native to Scotland had to be considered. It was agreed that the basic principles of the Section 30 model were sound, and that the problems arose in the enforcement issue.

26. There was a general consensus from the Steering Group that Scotland should introduce measures to regulate the movement of fish between catchments, and section 30 of the 1975 Act, along with the recommendations of the EA in the light of experience of its use, would provide a suitable basis for developing such measures.

Action - Peter Maitland to circulate details of fish native to Scotland

Access (SFFF SG 3-4)

27. Derek Keith gave a short talk on the issue of access in Scotland. The main points raised included:

· Placing of the notice that an Order has been made only in the Edinburgh Gazette was not sufficient to allow full public awareness that an Order had come into force;

· The length of the consultation period ( at least 28 days) was not long enough as generally the minimum was used;

· If more than one objection was received then a public inquiry should be held;

· No historical data existed to measure increased fishing against;

· Land, therefore fishing rights changes hands;

· Liaison Committees are not effective;

· Wardens are nominated by the owners of the fisheries; and

· Orders have been renewed 'without limit of time'.

28. It was suggested that the Steering Group should also look at areas where Protection Orders had proven to work well. It was agreed that the failings of the present Protection Order system needed to be identified and listed.

29. There was general agreement from the Steering Group that there were problems with the 1976 Act. The Group was reminded that the Minister has stated that the 1976 Act will be repealed and replaced with something better. The Group agreed that there are many instances where different anglers, with reasonable aspirations to target different species, might wish to access the same waters at the same times, and that managers will have to be able to deal with these potentially conflicting fishing needs. It was suggested that when repealing the 1976 Act, the Steering Group should come up with sensible resource sharing ideas.

Action - Organise a visit to a Protection Order area such as the Tweed

- 4 or 5 people to develop some scenarios for discussion on management issues before the next Steering Group meeting. SEERAD to suggest personnel

- 4 or 5 people to develop some scenarios for access for the next Steering Group meeting. SEERAD to suggest personnel

- Ron Woods to email papers on Management Structures from the Angling for Change Group before the next meeting

AOB

Date of the next Freshwater Fisheries Forum

30. The Chairman suggested that the Freshwater Fisheries Forum should be used for providing feedback on the progress made by the Steering Group on the various Bill issues. Members of the Steering Group would be asked to gave presentations on the various Bill topics. It was suggested that the date of the next Freshwater Fisheries Forum should be postponed to late January 2005 when the Steering Group would have more to report to back to Stakeholders.

Action - SEERAD to check the availability of Stirling University for January.

Date and Place of Next Meeting

31. 10:00, 7 October 2004, Strathearn House, Perth