Minutes for the 10th meeting of the Freshwater Fisheries Forum Steering Group held in Conference Room 004, Pentland House, 47 Robb's Loan, Edinburgh on 27th March 2006 at 10.30am.
In attendance:
Gordon Brown - SEERAD (Chairman)
David Dunkley - SEERAD
Manson Wright - SEERAD
David Ford - SEERAD - part meeting
Alistair Prior - SEERAD - part meeting
Dave Wyman - SEERAD - part meeting
Mabel McDowall - SEERAD (Secretariat)
Andrew Wallace - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards
Brian Davidson - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards
Hugh Campbell Adamson - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards
Jonathan Swift - Association of Scottish Stillwater Fisheries
Roger Brook - Rivers and Fisheries Trusts of Scotland
Seymour Monro - Atlantic Salmon Trust
David Bassett - British Trout Association
Willie Miller - Consultative Committee on Protection Orders
Peter Maitland - Fish Conservation Centre
Ross Gardiner - Fisheries Research Services
Alastair Stephen - Institute of Fisheries Management
George Holdsworth - Salmon and Trout Association
Willie Shearer - Salmon Net Fishing Association of Scotland
Ronnie Picken - Scottish Anglers National Association
Ron Woods - Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling
David Howell - Scottish Natural Heritage
Sarah Hutcheon - Scottish Natural Heritage
Miranda Lindsay - Scottish Rural Property and Business Association
Craig Campbell - NFU Scotland)
1. Introduction
The Chairman welcomed the Steering Group (SG) members and introduced Jonathan Swift from the Association of Stillwater Fisheries. Jonathan has taken over from George Holdsworth who is now representing the Salmon and Trout Association. He also welcomed Sarah Hutcheon who is taking over from David Howell as the representative from SNH, David Bassett from the British Trout Association who has taken over from Jane Davis, Hugh Campbell Adamson and Brian Davidson from the Association of Salmon Fishery Boards who were attending as observers.
The Chairman remarked that to date the main issue being dealt with by the Forum and the SG has been the development of the 'Bill', but as it is now progressing towards the formal stages, it is time for the Forum/SG to alter course and look at "issues beyond the Bill". There has been strong endorsement, both at the recent Forum and in the SG, for the SG to continue and it was agreed that the process should continue. Chairing future meetings was discussed, and it was agreed by all that SEERAD should continue in this role.
The Chairman reminded SG members of their role in making sure that there was a 2-way dialogue between them and their constituents as it had become apparent during the 'Bill' consultation road shows that messages were not always getting through.
2. Apologies
Callum Sinclair - Scottish Environmental Protection Agency, John Armstrong - FRS and Val Lusk SEERAD
3. Minutes of the Previous Meeting
The SG members approved the minutes with one small amendment to the paragraph on Alternatives to the System of Protection Order Areas.
It was agreed that future minutes would be agreed electronically so that they can be posted on the web site as soon as possible after the meetings.
Action - Secretary to post the approved minutes on the website and agree all future minutes electronically.
4. Matters Arising
4.1. Licensing proposals for regulating the removal of fish
This item is being covered in the 'Bill' update.
4.2. Public Rivers and Lochs
SEERAD have produced a paper giving clarification (SFFF-SG 10-01), which is attached to these minutes. After a short discussion it was generally felt that there was a lack of consistency in the law and also a lack of awareness of the law, in relation to rights of fishing in public waters, by some members of the general public and landowners. It was suggested that awareness should be raised, and that there may be a need for legislation to be clarified and perhaps the issue should be a subject for future legislation. It was agreed that SEERAD would investigate and report back to the Group.
Action - SEERAD to investigate and report back to the SG.
4.3. Sub Group Minutes
Minutes have been circulated.
5. Reflections on the Forum
It was agreed that the Forum had been very successful event, and that the West Park Centre had proved to be an excellent venue. The Minister had advised that she had found her visit to the Forum very informative, and had been impressed with the whole process.
It was felt that there could have been better handling of the presentation on Management Structures, and lessons have been learned.
It was disappointing that quite a number of people had reserved places, but had not turned up on the day or notified anyone to say that they would not be attending. It was felt that it is possible that the weather had something to do with this.
6. Aquaculture and Fisheries Bill update
Members of the 'Bill' team gave an update on the progress of the proposed Bill. The consultation period has now finished, and the team are in the process of analysing the responses. There has been a very good response both from individual members of the public and organisations. Responses, where the respondent(s) have given permission for them to be published, have been filed in the Scottish Executive library and will be published on the web site shortly. www.scotland.gov.uk/topics/fisheries/afbill Update - Responses have now been published.
It is still the intention that the draft bill will go before Parliament in June 06
It was agreed that the SG would be kept updated through the Secretariat.
Action - 'Bill' team to provide the Secretary with updates for distribution.
7. Gyrodactylus salaris Update
Contingency Plan
Putting together the plan has been a significant task. There has been very good co-operation from stakeholders, and this has resulted in an excellent piece of work. The last Task Force meeting is due to take place on 28/3/06, after which there will be a period of reflection before the plan is put forward to Ministers.
An Economic Impact Study, which has been commissioned from Stirling and Glasgow Caledonian Universities, will give pointers to the wider economic costs and benefits of eradication. The report should be available, hopefully in April.
Arrangements are being made to consult with colleagues, who drew up the oil spill contingency plans, and it is anticipated that a test run will take place later in the year to identify problem areas. Options are being examined and more information will be available in due course. However, it is anticipated that there will be a need for Steering Group input to ensure a really good test.
Fish Health Directive
UK line is that Gs should be placed on the list of non-exotic diseases to give a permanent recognition of the seriousness of the threat from Gs, but this has not been successful as the UK and Ireland stand alone in favouring this proposal.
There may have to be is a compromise proposal as member states do not want to control Gs by having to undertake expensive surveillance and testing programmes.
However, we are not at the end of the road and are still pressing for listing as well as consulting with Council of Europe legal services and the Presidency on ways to ensure that the additional guarantees are rolled forward.
We are also encouraging wild interests, NASCO and MEP's to actively lobby the EC.
If we are not successful in getting Gs on the list of non-exotic diseases then hopefully we will be successful in getting the National measures endorsed directly by the directive.
A general discussion followed. The group felt that it was important to raise public awareness of the Gs problem and that there may be opportunities for co-operation and co-ordination of press coverage over the coming year when announcements are to be made.
It was intimated that the Economic Impact Assessment would be used as a tool to persuade Ministers to take action as a lot of help would be required from out with the Scottish Executive and funds would have to be made available before any problem arose, especially for training.
With regard to proposals on imports the EU policy is to allow trade in all species unless a clear threat can be demonstrated.
The Norwegians have sent their dossier on Rotenone to Brussels and the feeling is that it will be approved. Its use is currently being assessed by the HSE. One problem is that Rotenone is used in conjunction with Aluminium Sulphate which is not on the list of approved chemicals.
With regard to eradication all waters would have to be treated regardless to ensure total destruction as Norwegians studies have shown that it is essential to ensure there is no re-infection. It was felt that because of other water users that eradication may not be possible and that there may be a need for a river by river assessment however, this was seen as not being practical and eradication is the only option.
The point was raised that if clubs or commercial fisheries become affected compensation would be required as significant investment could be wiped out.
Action - SEERAD to keep the SG updated on progress and include as a possible agenda item for the next Forum.
8. Report from Management Structures Sub Group (MSG)
The current Chairman intimated that he would like to stand down, but would continue to represent the ASFB on the MSG. After a general discussion about the future remit of the group, it was agreed that it would not be possible to continue functioning as one group. It was felt that there should be two distinct groups; 1 the MSG and 2 a new Communications Group (CG)
The MSG would be very much focused on the future. It was agreed that the group needed to be kept small and consist of existing members and no more.
The Communications Group would be involved with lobbying MSP's about the forthcoming Aquaculture and Fisheries Bill, and would consist of the members of the MSG minus the SE members.
It was agreed that the Scottish Executive would take on the role of chair and provide the secretariat for the MSG only, as it would be inappropriate for the SE to be involved with the CG.
There was a brief discussion about the remit of the MSG and it was agreed that clarification was required.
Action - SEERAD agreed to clarify the remit of the group and circulate to all members
Some members of the Steering Group felt that there was insufficient representation for anglers on the MSG, and it was suggested that SANA should join the group. SANA intimated that they would be happy to do so. It was pointed out that if SANA agreed to take part in the group it would be on the understanding that the group would be involved in taking forward the issue of Management Structures and in doing so the issue of raising both private and public funding would be investigated. SANA agreed.
There was a brief discussion about the size of the group and it was agreed that S&TA and SANA should have a discussion to decide which organisation should represent game anglers on the MSG.
Action - S&TA and SANA to discuss who should represent anglers on the MSG
Andrew Wallace from ASFB took over the chair for a discussion about the Communications Group. The Scottish Executive did not take part in this discussion.
9. Funding of Future Management Arrangements & 9.1 Rod Licensing
The Chairman was keen to get the SG's views as to how the debate should be taken forward. It was recognised that this was a sensitive issue. However, there was a working assumption that change was needed, and that there needs to be adequate funding if there is to be a public/private approach. The SG did, some time ago, agree that rod licensing was worth a debate and the group were asked for views about when the debate should take place.
It was felt that if changes to the Management Structures were to be taken forward, money would have to be raised. It was also seen as important that any money raised went back into the rivers and was not swallowed up by bureaucracy. Another view was that there was a need to get back to basics and agree what is required for fishery management, how much it is all going to cost and what extra management is required. It was felt that all options to raise funds should be looked at, and that this should include the cost of rod licenses, whether we go down this route or not. Changes that are being proposed in the 'Bill' e.g. banning tailers and gaff's will also add to the costs, so we need to think about the saleability? (wider implications)of the changes.
It was agreed that the best way forward would be to take the management structures issue forward first then look at funding.
10. Future Forum and Steering Group Agendas
Suggestions for future agendas were as follows:
Draft agenda for non legislative issues
Future Management Structures
Funding (including consideration of Rod Licensing)
Development of angling in Scotland
The work of the ATDG
Background paper on the costs of future management
Assessing the value of Scottish Fishing and how this could be packaged
Transparency of work of the SG towards future legislation
Using the Forum to communicate messages from the sub-group and to make decisions about issues
What fishery management is and where we want to be in 5 years time
Public access (Access Forum?)
Bird/Mammal predation - effects on fisheries and licensing arrangements
Cost of Bailiffs, whether paid or voluntary, should be assessed.
11. Communication(s) Strategy for Freshwater Fisheries
This was dealt with under item 8.
12. A.O.B.
Problems with the increased number of members of the public taking part in canoeing and rafting were raised as, in some areas, they are perceived as causing disturbance to both anglers and fish. It was felt that participants in these activities contributed little to the rivers, and the SG was asked it there was anything that they could do to resolve the issue.
It was pointed out that the Land Reform Scotland Act explains rights and responsibilities. It was suggested that it would be useful to look at the Act from the freshwater perspective to establish the scale of the issue. It was agreed that the issue should be dealt with through the Local/National Access Forums. If after consultation there was still a problem, it should be brought back to the Steering Group for further discussion.
It was suggested that there needed to be solid representation on these fora and it was agreed that SEERAD would investigate the possibility of getting someone along to a future SG meeting.
Action - SEERAD to investigate the possibility of inviting someone from their Landscape and Habitats Division Countryside team to the SG meeting.
13. Dates of future meetings
Forum - The Battleby Centre has been provisionally booked for 4/12/06 and 10/1/07. It was felt that 4/12/06 would be the best date, but it was also suggested that a venue in the central belt may be more convenient.
Action - SEERAD to investigate suitable venues in Glasgow .
Steering Group and Management Sub Group Meetings
It was agreed that the next SG meeting should be held in June and the MSG in the next few weeks.
Action - SEERAD to consult members, agree a dates and arrange venues.
Update 4/4/06
It has been agreed that the next Management Sub Group meeting will held on 19/5 at North Third Trout Fishery, Greathill House, Stirling, starting at 12 noon. Many thanks to George Holdsworth for kindly agreeing to host the meeting.
The next Steering Group meeting will take place on 21/6 in the Gannochy Suite at the Dewar Centre, Perth to co-incide with the ATDG meeting that has already been scheduled for that day.