The Scottish Government

ANIMAL HEALTH AND WELFARE STAKEHOLDERS GROUP, FOOT AND MOUTH DISEASE MEETING
6PM, 12 SEPTEMBER 2007, PENTLAND HOUSE, EDINBURGH

Present

* By teleconference

Introduction

1. The Cabinet Secretary apologised for his late arrival as he had been making a statement on foot and mouth disease to the Scottish Parliament and had been detained there following this. He said that this was the nightmare scenario, coming after they had thought they were on the road to normality. In the Scottish Parliament he had re-iterated the approach; that the lessons of last month would be taken on, just as the lessons of 2001 had been taken on. After the UK government confirmed disease, a national movement ban was immediately put in place. He had spoken to the Prime Minister at COBRA that afternoon, and was grateful to stakeholders for coming in at such short notice. He added that the First Minister had a pre-arranged meeting with supermarkets and producers the following day and that foot and mouth disease would feature highly in that.

Disease Situation

2. Charles Milne explained that the situation was fluid and complex and was continuously developing. Suspicion had been reported late the previous night when 40% of a herd at Egham, Surrey, had been salivating and lame, and investigated at first light when it was found that 80% had strong symptoms. The farm has at least 10 parcels of land, with seven holding animals. These were 300 cattle and some pigs. Two of the parcels of land were within August's Pirbright Surveillance Zone, with the animals here checked regularly through last month.

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3. While PCR results were still awaited, on the basis of strong initial results and very clear clinical signs of disease, the herd was slaughtered and the CVO UK was in a position to declare the presence of foot and mouth disease. We'd likely know the strain the following day, and know whether it was the same as from Pirbright or unrelated. Early indications are that there were no movements to the farm in the past year, and only two leaving, both to slaughter. Investigations were ongoing into a contiguous premises and a pig holding in Norfolk. A single ewe at Lanark market had been investigated for suspect foot and mouth disease and the case negated.

4. Until more was known, there was a lot of uncertainty. Without being able to know the virus type and movements off premises, a national movement ban was required. There had been some relaxation quickly introduced in Scotland. A major reassuring factor was that, until Saturday, there had been a national movement ban. Licences were being checked for movements to Scotland, though this was thought unlikely, and movements since Saturday were also being investigated. The situation was rapidly developing and updates were expected. He recognised that this was very disappointing, but that until more was known they could not take unnecessary risks.

Industry Perspective

5. Phil Flanders said that trailers were still at markets and hauliers would be unable to take livestock away that day due to running out of drivers' hours. He also said that vets and police at Castle Douglas were not letting animals leave. To the first point, Charles Milne responded by saying he was unclear how this could be so as they must have had enough hours to transport the animals away in any case. On animals not being allowed to leave, he explained that a General Licence allows animals to be moved from markets to their buyer's premises or back to their previous premises, and that it was possible this had not filtered down to vets and police at Castle Douglas. Graeme Cochrane, DVM Ayr, said that Animal Health officials were aware of the General Licence and that this has been relayed to the market and the police.

Action Point: Scottish Government to liaise with Dumfries and Galloway Police.

6. While welcoming the actions taken so far and the speed at which General Licences had been issued, Brian Pack asked if animals could be moved cross-border. Charles Milne explained that there was nothing in the Scottish rules that prevented cross-border movement, but he would have to check if the English or Welsh rules did so.

7. Jim McLaren said that the whole of industry was stunned, but they welcomed the initial moves by the Scottish Government. He sought assurance that once movements have been traced there would be quick action to relax restrictions, and asked about exports. Charles Milne said that at this stage, with there being so much uncertainty, it was difficult to commit to anything, but that he would commit to rolling back restriction as soon as possible. He said that the Scottish Government had already moved quicker than in August. While common sense said that it was likely that it was the same virus as August, it was not safe to assume as much. On exports, he reported that SCOFCAH had met that day and a full export ban on live animals and animal products was imposed on GB. This was inevitable, and the number one priority now would be to get this rolled back. It would be more difficult this time as Member States can't have the same confidence as they had before, with the source of this second outbreak being unknown.

8. Jack Clark asked if animals would be allowed to be moved to slaughter from the following day. Charles Milne replied that they would, that abattoirs would not need to seek approval again if they had done so in August, but it was dependent on MHS supervision, which he hoped to have in place the following day but possibly not from 9am.

9. Alistair Donaldson asked about multiple pick-ups, stressing the financial difficulties of single pick-ups. Charles Milne said that this was not being considered at that time, and it was based on Centre of Excellence risk analyses. He stressed that the risk of disease transferral from single-pick ups was only tolerably low if proper cleansing and disinfecting was carried out, and reminded stakeholders that the August outbreak probably came out of Pirbright on wheels or wheel arches. Phil Flanders said that this would also have an effect on drivers' hours and it was agreed to discuss this later.

10. George Milne said that he would like to see regionalisation considered in Scotland this time, with some farmers earning three-quarters of their income in this month. The Cabinet Secretary said that this had not been pursued last time due to the strong preferences of industry made to Ministers, but that the circumstances this time were different and they had already been discussing regionalisation again.

11. Kim Haywood made two points; the need for an investigation to understand how this second outbreak has happened, and that exporters had borrowed heavily to gather animals, with 6,000 calves at Ipswich port, which would now probably have to be destroyed. The Cabinet Minister said that he shared her concern that the incident needed to be fully investigated. Charles Milne said that they must not assume it is the same virus, though it seemed likely. If it is, then there will be serious questions. With the second Infected Premises slaughtered on 6 August the question was where the virus had been. This is a huge priority, for both international credibility and for disease control.

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12. Further to this point, Jack Clark said that it had infuriated industry that the disease had got out of Pirbright, especially as farmers were expected to maintain high biosecurity themselves, and asked about arrangements there. Charles Milne said that Pirbright was immediately shut down once it was discovered the virus had come from there, and strict cleansing and disinfecting regimes had been in place since.

13. John Bell asked about stock moving from England to Scottish abattoirs, and said that this may have an effect on regionalisation. Charles Milne said that the former point was allowed under our rules though not necessarily Defra's, and that the point about regionalisation was understood.

14. Hamish McBean asked about animals being allowed to cross roads, and pressed for dipping and clipping to be allowed as soon as possible. Charles Milne said only dairy cows moving for milking were allowed to cross roads, with Specific Licences available for welfare cases. On dipping and clipping, he said that the restrictions would be reviewed daily.

15. Barti Synge asked about fallen stock. Charles Milne said they'd be looking at single pick-ups tomorrow, following a Veterinary Risk Assessment. On post mortems, he said they'd get to that as soon as possible.

16. Jim Kennedy expressed disappointment about the prevention of multiple pick-ups and asked if this could be allowed under veterinary inspection. Charles Milne said that multiple pick-ups were allowed as soon as possible in August and would be again, but there was a need to look at movements from Surrey first. He also stressed that there were other investigations ongoing, and that certain relaxations were only allowed due to other safeguards being put in place, such as the resumption of markets and sales in August coming with the suspension of separation agreements and the increase in standstill to 20 days. This meant movements to slaughter could be allowed now, but only with single pick-ups.

17. George Milne and Helen O'Neil asked if Lanark market would be allowed to continue the following day. Charles Milne said that animals can be moved forward from markets to a buyer, or back to the premises of origin, and that markets can be completed. This was safe provided good records were kept. He stressed that no animals could now be brought to a market. The point was also made by stakeholders that the movement of people into markets was just as critical.

18. Mike Flynn offered the Scottish SPCA's help to any farmers, or to the Scottish Government, and the Cabinet Secretary thanked him for his offer.

19. Norman Leask thanked the Cabinet Secretary and the Chief Veterinary Officer for their consideration of the islands, and he and Stuart Wood asked about extending the contract period of stock boats. The Cabinet Secretary said that this had been raised in Parliament and Scottish Government transport officials were looking into it. Charles Milne said that there were two issues; even if the boats could be kept running, this would be of little use until the animals had markets to go to on the mainland. He said they were exploring this issue.

20. Aileen McFadzean said the biggest questions her members would ask is, in the best case scenario, how long would restrictions last. She reminded the group that grazing had previously been said to be down to 2-3 weeks, and that this was now up. Charles Milne said that he fully appreciated the situation of farmers and that he, Ministers and officials had spoken to many farmers, particularly in the sheep sector. However, given the level of uncertainty he wasn't in a position to give any dates yet. Aileen McFadzean responded by saying that, given the dire financial situation, could the Single Farm Payment be brought forward. The Cabinet Secretary said that this had been discussed with the First Minister in the last few hours and would be considered.

21. Members generally asked to be informed of developments before hearing them through the press. Charles Milne responded by pointing out that the BBC had reported disease as being confirmed when it was not, and didn't come until after 1 pm. He said they couldn't control media speculation. The Cabinet secretary said that we'd always tell stakeholders first, but that it was difficult to control what the media reported. Ian Anderson reminded the group that the website was always very up-to-date, and that the helpline was running, with staff briefed at least daily. David Whiteford said that the website was not so easy to navigate and that the most recent event should be at the top. The Cabinet Secretary said that, if the group wished, they would look at updating them through text messages too.

Copies of the Cabinet Secretary's statement to Parliament were circulated at this point.

22. Bob Carruth offered to use the NFUS stakeholder network to ask about movements from Surrey, as this could by-pass the official tracings, and this was gratefully accepted.

23. Uel Morton praised the fast pace of the Scottish Government and said that industry had confidence in the Cabinet secretary and officials.

24. Brian Pack made the final point, re-iterating the messages about the perilous state of the industry, saying that they were facing meltdown and that this is a watershed.

25. The Cabinet secretary wound up the meeting by acknowledging the financial pressures and saying that we would all need to work together to pull through. These lessons would be taken into the following day's meeting between the First Minister and retailers. He promised to be back in touch with the group very shortly.

Scottish Government Rural Directorate

14 September 2007

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