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Minutes of the Meeting on the 23rd

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REVIEW OF AGRI-ENVIRONMENT SCHEME PAYMENT RATES: MEETING WITH STAKEHOLDERS HELD ON 23 JUNE 2005 AT THE RURAL CENTRE, INGLISTON

NOTE OF MAIN POINTS

Present:

Andrew Moxey, SEERAD- ASD (Chair) Brian Kaye SOPA

John Henderson, SEERAD-Agriculture Staff Jonathan Hall, SRPBA

Valerie Blackie, SEERAD-CAPM Douglas Bell, SAC

Ingrid Clayden, SEERAD- FBRD (Item 4) Alison Mcknight, FWAG

Roger Burton, SNH Norman Leask, SCF

Scott Walker, NFUS Patrick Krause, SCF

Mandy Glover, RSPB Lisa Schneidau, LINK

Carey Coombs, Soil Association Andy Robertson, NFUS (Item 4)

Ann Cowan , SEERAD- FBRD

Welcome, apologies etc

1. Apologies were received from John Hood and Derek Cowie, plus some folk caught in RHS traffic and therefore running late.

2. Andrew explained that he would be chairing the meeting for the first 3 agenda items as Ingrid had to accompany the Minister to a briefing event at the Royal Highland Show. Following welcomes, it was explained that the main purpose of today's meeting was to discuss the calculations of the agri-environment scheme payment rates for the following options, or at least as many as could be covered in the time available.

(1) Management of Hedgerows,

(2) Stock Removal,

(3) Unharvested Crops,

(4) Extensive Arable Cropping,

(5) OAS improved grassland (conversion and maintenance),

(6) Retention of cattle on small units,

(7) Conservation Headlands.

3. It was explained that nothing could be agreed without further reflection and that the purpose of the meeting was to foster an exchange of information. The Group was reminded that we were working within the constraints of the agri-environment scheme EC regulations in that management payments could only be based on income foregone, additional costs and an optional incentive element of up to 20%. It was also noted that there is an immediate, short-term issue in getting new rates agreed for the remainder of the current SRDP and a longer-term issue of rates and structures under the next SRDP. Whilst points relating to the latter should be noted, the emphasis had to be on the former.

4. Andrew also explained that the people issues would be discussed later once Ingrid was able to join the meeting. Andy Robertson NFUS would also attend for item 4 only.

Agreement of previous minutes

5. The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.

Run through of rates

6. The NFU and SRPBA stressed that whilst they were happy to join in any discussions on the rates, they would not agree to anything until the people issues had been resolved since they regarded these as fundamental. It was agreed to note these concerns, which would be returned to under Agenda item 4 anyway.

7. There was some discussion on the use of the SAC handbook as a basis for all the calculations. It was pointed out by SAC that these rates are used for illustrative purposes only; they are not based on historic data but best judgement and are variable from year to year.

8. It was agreed that despite these reservations, the figures provide a good initial basis for calculations. In particular, they were relatively transparent and comprehensive, widely accepted as a standard reference and, crucially, has been the basis of previous submissions to the European Commission. On this basis, they should remain our starting point, with any deviations from them being fully justified.

9. The stock disposal payment rate was then discussed. The SEERAD calculation of £10.92 had been run past a few farmers who currently partake in this option, all had said that the rate was still too low, and therefore was not meeting its objective. With the previously proposed drop in the rate (£5.77), Shetland stood to lose about £0.5m from its economy; this was of great concern, particularly for the common grazing participants. Hill farming requires more extensive labour use despite herd numbers coming down. More shepherding is required and this does not appear to have been taken into account in the SEERAD calculations. It was agreed that alternative figures offered by NFUS, FWAG and SNH would be looked at again; firstly without adding an incentive and then if it was needed with an incentive. Action SEERAD

10. The management of hedgerows payment rate was then discussed, there had been an error in the original calculation when converting from a per linear to per hectarage but it was still felt that the revised rate of £0.34 per metre was too low. FWAG had looked at the actual costs of maintaining a hedge by phoning 5 or 6 contractors all over Scotland. They had asked for a quote over x metres of gapping, hand weeding and trimming every three years. They had not added in a figure to account for the loss of grazing. SAC mentioned that if a hedge was only to be trimmed every three years then clearing up costs would also need to be included in calculations. There was some discussion of the differences between new and old hedges, with an analogy drawn with green and brownfield sites. John Henderson asked if FWAG, SRPBA and SAC could provide figures on actual costs, and he would look again at the SEERAD figures . Action FWAG, SPRBA and SAC

11. The OAS improved grassland (conversion and maintenance) options were then discussed. It was acknowledged that the organic sector felt very out of things as we moved towards Land Management Contracts. There were 3 prescriptions within the current Menu Scheme that organic farmers were excluded from. This needs to be addressed when developing the Tier 2 and 3 measures further, and should be noted that Ingrid now chaired both groups. There is so much data to look at and some derogation factors have to be considered. Some further reflection on the SEERAD calculations was required. Action Soil Association

12. There was then a brief discussion on extensive cropping. This revealed a general consensus that, whereas the SEERAD calculations assumed de-intensification of an existing arable enterprise, much of the (target) land was actually in grassland and therefore incurred additional ploughing costs. Ways of confirming this were requested. It was acknowledged that there was a difference in costs and a divide between uptake of this option between the East and West of Scotland. It is not an option undertaken by a typical arable farmer but more likely to be those who use the crop for fodder. It was felt that contractor costs should be used rather than on-farm labour costs. There should also be an allowance for work such as removing stones and boulders. SEERAD agreed to have another look at this calculation, FWAG offered to confirm previous cover types if possible. Action SEERAD and FWAG

13. Due to lack of time it was felt that the rest of the discussion on the rates should be postponed until the next meeting. People were thanked for their constructive contributions which had helped to progress thinking on some general points of principle and a few specific rates. General points included the calculation of averages (simple, weighted means), the application of incentives (to cover difficult to quantify elements and as an actual additional incentive element) and the choice of labour costs.

Ingrid Clayden and Andy Robertson joined the meeting.

People issues

14. Ingrid thanked Andrew for chairing the earlier session. She explained that SEERAD lawyers were still looking at the previous suggestion raised by the NFUS and SRPBA that amended rates should not apply to existing scheme participants.

15. It was accepted that where there is a double funding issue then it must be addressed. There are, however, groups of existing scheme participants for whom it appears there is no double funding. Therefore, the question is how to tackle double funding in a way that will not disadvantage those who are not double funded. This would mean in some way ring-fencing the payments of those who are not double funded for the duration of their current agreement. This in turn would imply running with more than one rate for each measure for a time and SEERAD would need to confirm whether this was possible.

16. SCF felt that Shetland would prefer adjustment of the Single Farm Payment rather than agri-environment rates. In terms of the legal mechanism for dealing with double funding, SEERAD has the authority to adjust agri-environment rates during the life of an agreement and had therefore invoked this authority to tackle double funding when implementing the SFP. Defra had opted for a different approach and would be offering scheme participants the option of adjustment to the SFP or their agri-environment payments. If it was nevertheless possible to adjust the SFP, then work on unpicking successful challenges would need to begin almost immediately and a case-by-case approach would have very significant resource implications. SNH helpfully explained their approach, but raised longer-term issues of changes that would take place eventually when existing contracts end and/or SFP rates alter.

17. It was agreed that where there is clearly no double funding, participants should not be disadvantaged or penalised. Work on identifying these participants and evaluating the options for dealing with their circumstances would run alongside ongoing work on revised rates. Action SEERAD.

18. NFUS were thanked for providing the venue and all were thanked for their contributions.

Confirmation of future meetings

29 June am 10:00am - 1:00pm (Pentland House)

7 July, from 10:00am - 1:00pm (Pentland House)

14 July, from 10:00am - 1:00pm (Pentland House)

21 July, from 10:00am - 1:00pm (Pentland House)

28 July, from 10:00am - 1:00pm (Pentland House)

4 August, from 2:00pm - 5:00pm (Pentland House)

FBRD

June 2005

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Page updated: Tuesday, August 9, 2005