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Analysis of Responses to the Consultation on the Scottish Government's Strategic Approach to Changing Scotland's relationship with Alcohol

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CHAPTER 5: OTHER RESPONSES AND SURVEYS

Summary

  • The Scottish Government's Summit on Underage Drinking provided a range of views and suggestions from professionals and young people on why young people drink; prevention and education initiatives to change attitudes to alcohol misuse and drunkenness; possible measure to reduce access to alcohol; and, the role of parents and carers.
  • Almost 500 young people responded to the Young Scot Survey and provided insight into how young people obtain alcohol. There was no consensus amongst these respondents on whether it is a ' good idea' to increase the purchase age in off-sales to 21: 34% were in favour, 36% against.
  • The consultation exercises conducted amongst constituents by two MSPs showed high levels of support for the proposals put forward in the discussion paper, including restricting irresponsible promotion and below cost-selling of alcoholic drinks; introducing a minimum retail pricing of alcohol; and, raising the minimum purchase age to 21 in off-sales.
  • The Scottish Prison Service ran consultation exercises which provided the views of over 50 prisoners and 11 prison staff on the proposals in the discussion paper. Most prisoners were sceptical of the proposals put forward in the discussion paper.
  • Large majorities of the young people who participated in a consultation with young people conducted by East Renfrewshire Community Health Partnership opposed the proposals to raise the minimum legal purchase age of off-sales; restrict promotional material in licensed premises; and to introduce separate alcohol checkouts.
  • Two public petitions have been submitted to the Scottish Parliament urging the Scottish Government to drop or reconsider its proposal to raise the age of off-sales alcohol purchase from 18 to 21.
  • A number of consultation respondents provided details of surveys they conducted amongst their stakeholder groups or customers. These surveys showed mixed support for the proposals included in the discussion paper.

Introduction

5.1 This chapter provides a summary of the views expressed in two related elements of the Scottish Government's consultation on its alcohol misuse discussion paper - a Summit on Underage Drinking and a survey carried out for the Scottish Government by Young Scot. It also provides brief summaries of the views expressed through:

  • two surveys conducted by MSPs;
  • a Scottish Prison Service consultation with prisoners and staff;
  • consultations with young people conducted by East Renfrewshire Council and Dundee Alcohol and Drug Action Team;
  • two public petitions submitted to the Scottish Parliament; and,
  • surveys carried out by / on behalf of organisations responding to the consultation.

Summit on Underage Drinking

5.2 The Scottish Government's Alcohol Misuse Team hosted a Summit on Underage Drinking with the aim of bringing together a broad range of stakeholders to consider what might be done to tackle underage drinking in Scotland. The Summit also offered an opportunity to provide feedback on related aspects of the Scottish Government's discussion paper.

5.3 The Summit, which took place in Edinburgh on 2 nd September 2008, was attended by around 170 delegates from a range of public agencies, local authorities, voluntary sector organisations and youth organisations. A large number of young people from youth organisations (such as the Scottish Youth Parliament) and from several youth projects and initiatives attended the event.

5.4 The event was structured around workshop discussion groups which were facilitated by representatives of the Scottish Youth Parliament, Young Scot and Youthlink Scotland on the following topics or themes:

  • Why do young people drink?
  • Prevention and education: changing attitudes to alcohol misuse and drunkenness;
  • Reducing access to alcohol; and,
  • The role of parents and carers.

5.5 Detailed notes were taken of the discussions that took place in each of the workshop groups and these have been considered by the Alcohol Misuse Team Appendix 3 provides a detailed summary of the key points raised in the discussions around the four themes.

5.6 The following issues were raised across the four workshop themes:

  • there is a need to consult and engage with young people to ensure that action taken, messages given out, etc. address their needs, are relevant and effective;
  • young people feel they have nothing to do so drinking is something to relieve boredom; it is a form of escapism; they enjoy it; and, they are under a lot of peer pressure;
  • it is important to recognise that there is no 'one size fits all' solution;
  • peer education can be an effective way of engaging young people;
  • the law needs to be consistent ( e.g. on minimum ages / age of consent);
  • the approach to alcohol needs to be consistent and messages need to be appropriate (through better targeting at different audiences);
  • adults and parents need to set a good example;
  • parents need to educate their children about alcohol but themselves need support from formal education and community based support and advice networks;
  • non-alcohol related (diversionary) activities are important to provide as alternatives for young people but they must be what young people want and be affordable;
  • there is need to enforce current legislation effectively ( e.g. use of proof of age ID, test purchasing, etc.); and
  • achieving cultural change will be a long-term process requiring long-term commitment and a whole population approach.

Young Scot Survey

5.7 Young Scot was commissioned by the Scottish Government to seek the views of young people aged 11-26 on the Scottish Government's proposals for tackling alcohol misuse. The aim of the consultation was to give young people the opportunity to comment on the key proposals in the discussion paper and to help shape future policy on alcohol in Scotland. The consultation process included both quantitative and qualitative elements.

5.8 The main part of the research undertaken by Young Scot was an on-line survey available on the Young Scot website from 23 rd June to 25 th August 2008. The survey consisted of 22 closed, tick box questions and two open questions. Young Scot supplemented the on-line survey with qualitative analysis based on four focus groups carried out in Glasgow, Dundee, Dumfries and Inverness.

5.9 This summary of the views expressed by the respondents to the online survey and participants the four focus groups is based on the report produced for the Scottish Government by Young Scot.

Results of the Young Scot on-line survey

5.10 Just under 500 young people completed the on-line survey. Fifty eight percent of respondents were female and 41% were male. Three quarters of respondents were aged 11 - 18, while 10% were aged 19 - 26 and 15% did not give their age. Young people from across Scotland responded, although 31% of respondents were from Aberdeen and only 7% each from Glasgow and Edinburgh.

5.11 Just over half of respondents (55%) said that they drink alcohol, with 43% saying that they do not. Of those that do drink alcohol, a third (34%) stated they drink once or twice a week, a quarter drink at least once a month, and just under a quarter (23%) drink less than once a month.

5.12 The most common age for trying their first alcoholic drink was between the ages of 12 and 15 (43%). The most common places the young respondents said they usually drink are at home (21%) and at a friend's house (13%).

5.13 The responses to the question ' Where do you usually buy alcohol?' showed that young drinkers use a range of sources to access alcohol:

  • Supermarket: 13%
  • Local shop: 12%
  • Off licence: 10%
  • Pub: 10%
  • Other: 12%

5.14 Just over a third of respondents (36%) said that they had asked someone to buy alcohol for them. Four out of ten of these (41%) said that they had asked a friend, whilst 29% had asked a brother, sister or other relative and 25% had asked someone else.

5.15 Responses to the question ' Do you think it's a good idea to change the age you can buy alcohol in off-sales premises from 18 to 21?' showed there was no consensus amongst respondents. Thirty four percent said they thought this is a ' Great or quite a good idea' compared to 36% who said this is ' Not a good idea'. Thirty one percent did not answer this question or said ' Don't know'.

5.16 However, just under half (45%) of respondents thought that changing the minimum age to 21 would make it ' much more' or ' a bit more difficult' for young people under 18 to buy or get hold of alcohol, whilst less than a third (31%) thought it would ' not make any difference'.

5.17 Four out of ten respondents (41%) thought that special offers on alcohol encourage young people to drink more, whilst just over a quarter (27%) thought that they do not. However, responses to the question ' Do you think it's a good idea to ban these special offers?' showed no consensus with a third saying it is a ' Great or quite a good idea', just under a third (30%) saying it is ' Not a good idea' and 37% not answering or saying ' Don't know'.

5.18 There was more support for the proposal to have separate checkouts for alcohol in shops and supermarkets. Four out of ten (41%) said this is a ' Great or quite a good idea' compared to only 22% who said it is ' Not a good idea.' Again 37% did not answer this question or said ' Don't know'.

5.19 There was no consensus on whether separate check outs would help young people to think more before buying alcohol. Whilst 33% of respondents thought that they would either ' definitely' or ' probably' help young people to think more, 29% did not think that they would help and 37% did not answer this question or did not know.

5.20 A majority of respondents felt that people working on separate checkouts should be (42%) or probably should be (10%) over 18, whilst only 5% thought they should not be over 18.

5.21 A majority of the young people who responded to the survey thought that more activities for young people to do in their local areas would definitely (34%) or probably (25%) help to make it less likely they would drink alcohol.

Results of the Young Scot focus groups

5.22 The Glasgow focus group produced mixed results. Half of the participants did not drink alcohol and thought the Government's new proposals on alcohol would be a good idea as it would stop people drinking at a younger age and reduce alcohol related illnesses in later life. However, the other half of the group did drink alcohol, mainly at the weekends to help them relax after being at work or college. They argued that the Government should not change current alcohol legislation as people under the age of 21 would still be able to get a hold of it and that ' banning sales' would make the problem worse.

5.23 The entire Dundee focus group stated that they did not agree with the proposals set out in the Government's alcohol misuse discussion paper and thought things should remain the same. All the young people admitted they drunk alcohol on the weekend or on special occasions.

5.24 Participants in the Dumfries focus group stated that current alcohol legislation should not be amended; changes would only exacerbate the problem. In their experience it was very easy to get a hold of alcohol from shops from an early age. The young people in this group thought that more activities and peer education from older young people would discourage underage drinking.

5.25 Participants in the Inverness focus group were of a younger age group than the other groups. None of them said they drink alcohol with their friends. They only drink alcohol if it is a special occasion and under their parent's supervision.

MSPs Surveys

5.26 Two MSPs, Michael Matheson (Falkirk West) and Christine Grahame (South of Scotland) conducted their own consultation exercises amongst constituents in selected areas of their constituencies. They presented the results of these consultation exercises as their responses to the consultation.

Michael Matheson MSP (Falkirk West)

5.27 Michael Matheson MSP issued a one-page consultation form with six questions to constituents in his Falkirk West constituency. Over 500 people returned completed questionnaires. The responses showed a high level of support for the key proposals contained in the discussion paper. The detailed results of the survey are provided in Appendix 4.

5.28 Respondents also provided suggestion on what information parents would find particularly helpful in relation to alcohol. The most common responses were:

  • awareness of consequences of drinking ( e.g. health, violence) - 59%;
  • emphasis on parental responsibility ( e.g. being a good role model) - 16%;
  • information to help parents deal with under-age drinking ( e.g. strengths of drinks and how they affect behaviour) - 13%; and,
  • feedback from police when children are caught drinking - 9%.

Christine Grahame MSP (South of Scotland)

5.29 Christine Grahame MSP carried out a similar consultation exercise in Penicuik, Midlothian and the nearby communities "where constituents had frequently raised the prevalence of alcohol related anti-social problems at MSP surgeries." 13,000 leaflets were issued to residents selected from the electoral register and "within two weeks approaching 2,000 people had replied." The leaflet was accompanied by a one-page consultation form containing five questions based on the questions asked in the Scottish Government's discussion paper.

5.30 A report detailing the responses from the first 1,000 responses was submitted by the MSP to feed into the Scottish Government's consultation before the deadline for consultation responses. This showed that there were clear majorities in favour of the principal proposals outlined in the discussion paper, apart from separate checkouts for alcohol on which respondents were evenly divided. The detailed results of the survey are provided in Appendix 4.

5.31 The MSP provided the following summary analysis of comments made by the respondents:

  • "An overwhelming number of respondents agree that alcohol is a significant problem;
  • the majority of responsible drinkers should not be penalised by the behaviour of the irresponsible few;
  • underage drinking is mainly a parental responsibility and the focus should be on that;
  • many respondents see education as a major part of the longer term solution; and,
  • there is a majority feeling that existing alcohol laws should be enforced more vigorously and that more effective and increased policing is needed to combat anti-social behaviour."

Scottish Prison Service Consultation

5.32 The Scottish Prison Service submitted two responses to the consultation paper; one based on comments from over 50 prisoners, and the other based on comments from 11 prison staff members.

Response from prisoners

5.33 The response from prisoners came from group discussions and individual responses from six institutions: Her Majesty's Prison ( HMP) Edinburgh, HMP Glenochil HMP and Young Offenders' Institution ( YOI) Cornton Vale, YOI Polmont, HMP Perth, and, HMP Dumfries.

5.34 The majority of prisoners felt that cut price drink and special offers does encourage increased levels of drinking but they felt that ending promotions would not affect the amounts people drink on its own but perhaps should be part of a range of measures. Many said that ending drinks promotions could be seen as " punishing the less well-off or non-problem drinkers."

5.35 Prisoners were "very suspicious and angered" at the thought of increased pricing, especially if it involved increased profits or increased tax revenue. They thought that increased pricing would encourage a larger black market, illicit manufacture and acquisitive crime and even encourage drug use if alcohol were more expensive than drugs. Some thought that it would make no difference to amounts consumed.

5.36 A significant minority of prisoners thought advice would make no difference as they felt young people do not listen to advice anyway. However, they made several suggestions for the kind of support and information parents might find useful. They suggested money should be available for low income families, youth organisations, etc. to provide alternatives to the drinking culture. They felt that campaigns should concentrate on the harmful effects of alcohol and 'the younger the better' for education and awareness initiatives. Parents should be encouraged to be role models, should be more involved in their children's lives and should know where their children are at night-time.

5.37 The majority of male prisoners thought that increasing the minimum age for off-sales purchase to 21 is a " bad idea." However, around half of female prisoners agreed with this proposal. Young offenders said they would find ways round increased age limits.

5.38 All prisoners disagreed with the idea of separate checkouts. There was some agreement that it may restrict underage drinking but that it would also deter responsible drinkers from buying alcohol this way.

Response from Prison Staff

5.39 The majority of prison staff felt that proposals to end price promotions would make the majority of sensible drinkers pay for the behaviour of a minority of 'problematic' drinkers. They felt that an end to cheap drink promotions would encourage alternative sources of alcohol, such as black market and illicit manufacture. The majority of staff agreed with the idea of minimum pricing but they all thought it would make little difference to the amounts drank by problem drinkers.

5.40 The most common reply to the question about what advice for parents need was that parents should drink sensibly and set their children a good example through responsible drinking. Other suggestions included: introducing young people to drinking at mealtimes; and providing children and young people with education about the long term effects of alcohol misuse and safe drinking.

5.41 Most staff thought 18 was a reasonable minimum age for purchasing alcohol and only a small minority thought it should be increased to 21 for off-sales.

Young People's Views - East Renfrewshire and Dundee

5.42 The responses submitted by East Renfrewshire Community Health Partnership and Dundee Drug and Alcohol Action Team were summaries of views expressed by young people they consulted in their areas.

5.43 The views of 34 young people from East Renfrewshire who use the local Youth Health Service were collected at an alcohol and drugs workshop where young people commented on the questions in the discussion paper most relevant to them. Majorities of the young people who participated in the discussion opposed the proposals to:

  • raise the minimum legal purchase age of off-sales (28 against; six in favour);
  • restrict promotional material in licensed premises (21 against; six in favour; seven made no comment); and,
  • introduce separate alcohol checkouts (20 against; four in favour; 10 made no comment).

5.44 However, they were evenly split on the proposal to raise the minimum age of alcohol checkout staff to 18; 14 in favour, 14 against, and six no comment.

5.45 The combined views of young people consulted by Dundee Drug and Alcohol Action Team were as follows (actual quotes from the report are shown in italics):

  • all of the measures to end irresponsible promotions and below cost-selling should be implemented as there was general agreement that 'buy one get one free' and other promotions 'can encourage over indulgence';
  • a minimum pricing scheme may be difficult to put in place but "seems a positive idea";
  • general agreement that the proposal to raise the minimum age of off-sales purchase to 21 is "a quick fix with a punitive underbelly";
  • a social responsibility fee "may encourage more irresponsibility from alcohol vendors as they will have to re-coup the costs" and overall this was an unpopular proposal; and,
  • separate alcohol checkouts were not considered a positive move.

Public Petitions to the Scottish Parliament

5.46 Two public petitions have been submitted to the Scottish Parliament urging the Scottish Government to drop or reconsider its proposal to raise the age of off-sales alcohol purchase from 18 to 21. The petition submitted on behalf of the Coalition Against Raising the Drinking Age in Scotland ( CARDAS) calls on the Scottish Parliament " to urge the Scottish Government to drop its proposal to raise the age for off-sales alcohol purchases from 18 to 21." A similarly worded petition was submitted by an individual, Greig Muir.

5.47 Both petitions were placed on the Parliament's website as e-petitions to collect signatures from members of the public. Greig Muir's petition received 627 signatures between 17 th June - 29 th August 2008. CARDAS also ran its petition on its own website and on the Facebook social networking site and submitted the petition with 10,000 signatures to the Scottish Parliament Public Petitions Committee. Both petitions were considered by the Public Petitions Committee on 23 rd September 2008.

Other Surveys

5.48 A number of respondents to the Scottish Government's discussion paper provided details of surveys they conducted amongst their stakeholder groups or customers, including:

  • ASDA - survey of 10,000 customers;
  • Wine and Spirit Trade Association - ICM Poll of 1,000 people;
  • Wm Morrison Supermarkets - survey of 1,000 customers;
  • Scottish Youth Parliament - online survey with 134 responses; and
  • Alcohol Focus Scotland - survey of 143 members and partners.

ASDA - survey of 10,000 customers

5.49 ASDA commissioned an independent market research organisation to ask its customers their views on the key proposals in the Scottish Government discussion paper. The survey consisted of 10,109 face-to-face interviews conducted with shoppers in 30 ASDA stores throughout Scotland between 15 th and 29 th August 2008. The results of the survey are as follows:

  • six out of ten (61%) respondents disagreed with the proposal to set a fixed minimum price for alcohol;
  • two-thirds (67%) of respondents disagreed with the proposal to "ban multi-product promotions ( e.g. '3 for 2' and 'Buy one Get one Free')";
  • almost 60% of respondents agreed that neither minimum price or a ban on promotions would be the most effective polices in reducing alcohol consumption; and,
  • over seven out of ten (73%) of respondents disagreed with the proposal to have separate alcohol checkouts in supermarkets.

Wine and Spirit Trade Association - ICM Poll

5.50 The Wine and Spirit Trade Association commissioned ICM Research to conduct a survey of 1,000 Scottish people in July 2008 to assess Scottish attitudes towards alcohol regulation. The poll asked people to identify who they think is most at risk of abusing alcohol; choose which factors contribute most to people abusing alcohol; and, identity which measures would be effective on dealing with alcohol abuse in Scotland.

5.51 The survey respondents suggested that ' people who drink and drive' (24%) and ' young men who drink too much on a night out' (24%) are the groups ' most at risk from abusing alcohol'. However, almost 30% of respondents stated that ' teenagers getting hold of drink illegally' (17%) or ' young people getting hold of drink illegally' (12%) are the groups most at risk.

5.52 Respondents were asked to identify the factor that they think most contributes to people abusing alcohol. Peer pressure (26%); parents not taking enough responsibility (16%); people being more 'stressed' (13%) and family breakdown (12%) were the four factors most commonly identified by respondents. 'Taxes on alcohol are too low' was identified by only 3% of respondents as contributing the most to people abusing alcohol.

5.53 When presented with a long list of possible options half of respondents agreed that 'harsh punishment for licensees who sell to underage drinkers' would be an effective measure for the Government to take to deal with alcohol abuse in Scotland. The three next most common options picked out by respondents were 'improve education of alcohol abuse in schools' (48%); 'encourage police to arrest more people for drunken / anti-social behaviour' (38%) and ' fine parents whose children abuse alcohol' (36%). Two options based on key proposals put forward in the Scottish Government's discussion paper, ' raising drinking age to 21' and ' forcing supermarkets to sell alcohol at special kiosks' were picked by 28% and 20% of respondents respectively.

5.54 When asked to choose between the following two statements: "It's unfair that I should have to pay a higher price for the alcohol I buy because of a minority of people who abuse alcohol"; and "I'm happy to pay a higher price for the alcohol I buy because higher prices will reduce problem drinking amongst other people" 66% of respondents chose the first option and only 25% chose the second one.

Wm Morrison Supermarkets - poll of 1,000 customers

5.55 As "a contribution to the evidence base", Wm Morrison Supermarket's commissioned a market research company to survey 1,000 people who shop in Morrison stores across Scotland about the retailing of alcohol. The survey was carried out in August 2008.

5.56 Respondents were asked to rank the three most effective measures the Scottish Government could take to encourage more responsible alcohol consumption from a list of possible measures. The first and third most mentioned measures focused on enforcement of existing legislation. Alcohol education in schools was the second most popular measure.

Table 9: Three most effective measures for the Government to take to encourage more responsible alcohol consumption (Top five)

1 st

2nd

3 rd

Harsh punishment for licensees that sell to underage drinkers

17%

15%

13%

Improve education of alcohol abuse in schools

13%

15%

13%

Encourage the police to arrest more people for drunken / anti-social behaviour

14%

13%

13%

Fine parents whose children abuse alcohol

11%

10%

10%

Raise the drinking age to 21

12%

10%

8%

5.57 The survey included three other questions:

  • six out of ten respondents ' disagreed strongly' (39%) or 'slightly' (22%) that banning alcohol promotions would stop abuse in Scotland and four out of ten ' agreed slightly' (28%) or 'strongly' (12%);
  • six out of ten (61%) respondents said that a ban on promotions would not encourage them personally to drink more responsibly, 16% said it would, whilst a further 15% said "maybe";
  • two thirds (65%) of respondents said "no" when asked "Will separate checkouts for alcohol encourage you to consume alcohol responsibly?" compared to 12% who said " yes" and 13% who said " maybe".

Scottish Youth Parliament - on-line survey

5.58 The Scottish Youth Parliament conducted an on-line survey on its website to inform its response to the discussion paper. The survey received 134 responses. Just under half (49%) of the respondents were aged 17 - 20; 30% were aged 21 - 30 and 18% were aged 11 - 16.

5.59 Over three quarters of respondents stated that the use and abuse of alcohol is an ' extremely' or ' very important' issue (32% and 46% respectively); whilst 21% said it was of ' average importance'.

5.60 Respondents were asked to state whether they felt various options would help Scotland's relationship with alcohol and whether they should be introduced. As can be seen from Table 10 respondents were not convinced that two key proposals in the Scottish Government's discussion paper - 'increasing the price of alcohol' and 'raising the minimum age for purchase of alcohol to 21' - would help to improve Scotland's relationship with alcohol and were strongly opposed to these proposals. On the other hand, respondents were supportive of the proposal to ' stop special offers on alcohol'. They also strongly supported suggestions made in the survey that 'health issues should be publicised' and that 'dodgy shopkeepers' and 'adults who supply kids' should receive 'bigger punishments'.

Table 10: Findings from Scottish Youth Parliament on-line survey (base 134)

Which would help improve Scotland's relationship with alcohol?

Should it be introduced?

Yes (%)

No (%)

Yes (%)

No (%)

Increase price of alcohol

31%

56%

26%

59%

Stop special offers on alcohol

55%

35%

45%

39%

Publicise health issues

66%

16%

84%

9%

Bigger punishments for 'dodgy' shopkeepers

80%

13%

82%

11%

Bigger punishments for adults who supply kids

68%

21%

69%

23%

Ban on alcohol advertising

37%

46%

37%

48%

Raise the purchase price for alcohol to 21

14%

83%

14%

78%

Alcohol Focus Scotland - Survey of members and partners

5.61 Alcohol Focus Scotland issued an electronic questionnaire to its members and partners to gauge their views on issues raised in the discussion paper. It received 143 responses from members and partners including: community alcohol services and Alcohol and Drug Action Teams; education / health promotion organisations; licensed trade / industry; and, organisations with a wider health / social care interest.

5.62 The following is a summary of the responses to the questions asked in the Alcohol Focus Scotland members and partners survey:

  • just over half (56%) of respondents agreed that increasing the price of alcohol will make a contribution to reducing harm;
  • eight out of ten (81%) respondents agreed that discounting of alcohol should stop as it is a legal drug which needs to be treated with more respect;
  • just under eight out of ten (78%) respondents agreed that a minimum price should be set for alcohol;
  • just over eight out of ten (83%) respondents felt that standardising glass sizes/measures so that an agreed size is offered, and only giving a larger measure if the customer asks for it, should be introduced ( e.g. 125ml for wine, 25ml for spirits);
  • nine out of ten (91%) respondents agreed that parents need support in how best to talk to their children about alcohol and should be offered alcohol information;
  • seven out of ten respondents (73%) agreed that parents should be aware about the impact of their drinking behaviour on their children from pre-birth;
  • just under half of respondents (46%) felt that raising the purchase age to 21 for off-sales will make no difference to reducing young people's ' problematic drinking', and 37% felt that it would as it will mean 18-21 year olds drinking in controlled environments such as pubs;
  • seven out of ten (71%) respondents agreed that those who benefit from the sale of alcohol should also make a contribution towards the policing and treating of problems caused by drunkenness; and,
  • just under a half (48%) of respondents felt that that separate checkouts will not help to reduce consumption; compared to 38% who agreed.

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