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Appendix 4: Verbatim Comments Collected During Survey Work

(i) - Producers Survey

Q8a. Would it be feasible, at least within a certain geographical area, for you to distribute other companies' produce?

(Selected comments)

• Don't like doing it but feasible
• Yes as long as the produce was organic, can't cross contaminate
• No it would not be appropriate to mix other produce with our own, I wouldn't risk it
• Ayrshire food network are going to use software called 'lorder bytes' to consolidate orders.
• Depends on the produce
• No - far too time consuming / wear and tear
• Yes I see no problem with that
• Dependent on volume on a small scale, yes
• Depends on the goods
• Transport by car
• Longer term yes, short term no. I cook today, deliver tomorrow
• It would be difficult because of space but given notice it is possible
• Would I need a licence? I only have a transit van but it would be possible
• Yes, if it benefited us financially
• No, I don't have the time to look afer other companies deliveries
• Yes, a few of the local supplies have been talking about setting up something like that
• No, our vans are full when we send them out, we have no room for anone elses products
• No, not enough time to deliver others

Q9c.Why wouldn't you have responded to the notice (East Ayrshire Council's tender notice)?

(Selected comments)

• Not involved in that area of catering
• East Ayrshire is quite a way from us
• Not able to grow enough produce quickly enough
• Because we only supply luxury items
• I don't produce anything the school could use
• I don't feel our products would come into the councils budget. Our margins are very tight as it is but it depends on volumes and length of contract so I would have to take on extra staff
• Because we are at a different end of the market, we produce smoked salmon
• It would be a waste of time. The big companies such as Campbells have got the contracts, I can't compare with that
• We deal direct with a wholesaler, we cannot supply anybody else
• It would depend on how much extra produce I had
• I would have replied to it if it was sent direct to me by post
• I don't know, I would if it was South Ayrshire as that's closer to me
• I don't think that schools would want our duck and smoked salmon
• I would need to think about it
• Type of product available taht we deal with I believe would not be of interest to schools except the haddock
• I don't think it is appropriate for what I do
• I would not want to supply on credit
• We only supply to suppliers, not direct to schools
• Because of the nature of our business

Q11a. Why didn't you respond to that notice (IF SAW THE NOTICE)?

• We are too small and need the retail price
• I know how the system works, it's unlikely we would have been successful
• I aim at the top end of the market who are willing to pay extra for quality. I don't thonk schools can afford to pay this top end amount
• It's not relevant for me
• I am in my seventies and downsizing
• It is a big enough job producing the stuff without selling direct

Q14a(i).Why do you think your tender wasn't successful?

• Because we could only provide fruit and vegetables
• Could not deliver at the times they needed us to

Q14a(ii).How would winning the tender have benefited your business, whether financially or operationally?

• Not very much, we only offered the tenders as a gesture of supporting local schools
• It would have increased fiancially by giving me the 12 schools to tender for

Q14a(iii).How many extra staff, if any, would you have employed locally as a direct result of winning the tender?

• Would not have needed to increase staff, only a small company
• None, we are fully covered with staff

Q14b(i). Why do you think your tender was successful?

• Price and being able to deliver when they want, and supply of local produce
• We can give more variety than most companies because we are organic
• Because we are a local producer and we offer a quality product that is healthy and has not travelled all over the counrty. The price was reasonable plus we could meet delivery requirements
• Because we offered excellent service and a quality product
• Price and quality
• We are a local company and our produce is of a high quality

Q14b(ii). How will winning the tender benefit your business, whether financially or operationally?

• A small increase financially, we are doing our bit to support the schools
• The finance side will increase a bit but the main reason we put in the tender was to benefit the schools
• Its extra business so it will help our revenue, but it won't help us greatly financially
• It will compliament our other orders and make our deliveries more cost effective. It won't have a great effect on us financially
• Increased turnover and could increase employment
• It helps our business as a whole and just compliaments our business

Q14b(iii). How many extra staff, if any, will you employ locally as a direct result of winning the tender?

• None, we have plenty of staff to cover the increase
• At least 2 part-time
• We can cope with the level of orders under our current staffing levels
• The contract is not large enough for us to employ extra staff
• Minimum 1 - maximum 2
• It won't affect us. We won't be employing any extra staff

Q17. What problems might you face in supplying ingredients for school meals?

• Availability and range of choice available to us. Seasonal fish so haddock would be the only thing that would be available all year round
• Budget and finances. Our ice cream is top notch and prices reflect that!
• Competition from big suppliers
• Cost and distribution are the main problems, i don't know whether i can supply schools at a cost effective price for the schools
• Costs and supplying on credit
• Difficulty in reaching certain areas, logistics.
• Don't think it would be a problem
• I am now semi retired so don't wish to expand my business
• I don't think our duck and smoked salmon would be favoured in schools
• I don't think schools would want smoked salmon
• I have looked at it in the past but bigger firms have cornered the market. The council are only interested in companies capable of wide coverage
• I would need at least six months notice as that's now long it takes to mature
• I would need refrigeration plants etc
• I would need to know in advance what the demand would be
• If the margin was there then I would be extremely interested as I supply a high quality product
• It's all down to the products they are looking for
• Lead up time. We are a small company with tight margins and I am cautious about taking on things that I couldn't deliver if I took on extra staff and it wasn't watertight as I have a loyalty to staff
• Logistics of delivery, we could only deliver pork and bacon in justifiable quantities
• Logistics, at the moment we deliver once per fortnight. It is still not cost effective for us
• No problem at all
• No problems
• No problems, we have our own transport so that wouldn't be a problem, potentially problem with price due to ingredients being fresh
• None
• None
• None
• None
• None
• None
• Not a primary producer of ingredients
• Not really
• Not really our thing
• Only supply a small quantity and very seasonal
• Our products are bespoke and expensive
• Price
• Price may be an issue
• Quality / labour supply
• Quality of supply and individual order value
• Scale of our business is too small. We don't wish to supply to a price sensitive market but we would supply gluten free products if it was needed
• Schools could probably not afford to pay our rates
• Something could go wrong with the product - additional hassle
• South Ayrshire would be better as I am not in East Ayrshire
• Suppliers
• Supply chain up and running, it's all set up.
• Supply, cost and the unsuitable nature of the goods
• The school buyers
• The whole infrastructure of my business would have to change to supply direct
• They want beef burgers etc made with 95% lean meat we produce 90% do not think it could be done with 95%
• Too much hassle
• We cant supply schools direct, it needs to go through the wholesalers first, from a legal point of view. We would need our own processing plant.
• We don't supply ingredients
• We supply nutritional non-fatty products to food manufacturers - the problem is introducing producer awareness t the right people
• Well we only do potatoes, nothing else. Plus we only produce at the moment for 4 months of the year

Q18d.Why were you unsuccessful in any of those (tender) cases?

• Most of the tenders were in the private sector and we were successful in those
• Our Price was too high and logistics added costs
• Still waiting to hear
• The location, we only used to tender for our area but now it is not a problem as we can cover all of the areas
• We were waiting to hear from the last tender we put in

Q19. What, if anything, puts you off submitting more tenders?

• Bad payments by the council
• Competition
• Cost
• Giving out credit
• Having to change the infrastructure of my business
• I don't really know enough about it
• I haven't considered it before
• I sell everything I make at present
• Its not possible
• Margin and profit
• Not an avenue we want to target
• Not the nature of our business
• Not thought about it but payment would be an issue if it wasn't paid promptly
• Nothing
• Nothing
• Nothing
• Nothing
• Nothing
• Nothing
• Nothing
• Nothing
• Nothing - just lack of time at the moment
• Price Paid
• Price, need full retail price
• Quantities of products available to us
• Respond to tenders that are relevant to my business
• Tenders not made available enough
• The attitude of school buyers
• Too fussy
• We do day to day sales which is on going so we have not bothered to choose or submit any tenders yet
• We do mainly exports but also supply local companies so it is not a problem for us. It is something I have not thought about
• We only supply to suppliers - we can only supply schools indirectly
• We want to do more retail
• We've not yet got to that stage, we are starting now to look to other markets
• You need cold stores which I havent got

Q20a . Where do you normally look for them (tenders that you could respond to)?

• Keep our ears to the ground and word of mouth
• Local press
• Local publications
• Newspapers
• Restaurants / hotels
• Scottish Press
• Subscribe to tenders direct
• We have direct contacts

Q23. Thinking of your business in the future, what changes do you foresee in the types of customers that you supply?

• At the moment we are concentrating on hotels and restaurants but we would like to look at schools if the opportunity cam up.
• Hopefully more of the same customers that I currently supply
• I am going to retire soon so i am happy with what I have
• I can see my client base getting bigger. People are looking for quality and are prepared to pay for it
• I don't really see any changes except expanding
• I don't see any changes
• I don't see any major changes
• I foresee more people eating healthily, such as wholemeal products. Maybe not necessarily different types of customers but just people eating more healthily
• I think we will close as we are wanting to retire
• I will continue to supply the same goods, i just don't see anything at the moment
• In 2012 when the banning of cages for chicken egg production comes into force there is going to be a big swing towards free rage eggs, this may see the premium prices of free range eggs come down as production increases.
• Looking to increase box services into the retail sector
• More young people wanting convenience foods
• Moving away from private work to more corporate work which might include public sector catering
• Moving to supply to supermarkets
• Next year hoping to expand and supply garages, post offices etc
• No change
• No change anticipated
• No changes
• No changes
• None
• None
• None
• None
• None
• None
• None
• None - we supply a niche market
• None. We can only supply direct to our wholesaler
• Nothing
• Our business will change to supplying more to the catering industry rather than retail
• Our sector is consolidating - there are less smaller manufacturers and so therefore less choice
• Retail trade is shrinking but we can still grow within the boundaries but opportunities for growth will become less and less
• Sell more in the UK but there is less availability due to quotas and decommissioned fishing boats not being replaced. So we are looking at cockles and razor clams to fill the gap which I don't think would be used in schools. I may be wrong
• Specialist food is becoming more popular especially gluten free products
• Stay the same
• They need to be using Scottish beef. They will need to pay the going price for quality - local rather than foreign. It may be possible to supply the public sector
• We are continually changing our cheeses to suit the tastes of the market. We try to develop different cheeses for different and developing tastes
• We are driving towards the providence of the food stuffs source as that is what our customers want. e.g. to know where it has come from
• We are situated in a shopping precinct where our trade is being diverted by bigger players - the council is not being proactive enough an dour precinct my be demolished
• We are starting to look at other types of customers, schools, restaurants, that sort of thing. We are in early stages of talking about it
• We have exported for 20 years but we have had more demand for local fish now as people want local products so I can see an increase in local customers for the future
• We have good loyal customers so i don't see any changes for the future
• We only supply high end corporate customers. We intend to do more wedding, fine dining and sports dinners
• We want to sell more through retail in the cafe and farm
• We will be dealing with customers a lot more via tendering and contracting customers
• We will probably move to the catering trade. We also supply a lot of rural shops which do very well. e have to look for new outlets as the supermarkets are taking over
• We would tend to be going more abroad

(ii) - Catering Managers and Head Teachers Survey - PRE-AWARD OF NEW CONTRACTS

Q2a. ( HT) Briefly, what do you know about East Ayrshire Council's pilot scheme to introduce more local and organic foods into school meals? What do you know about the scheme came to be developed?

• I have some awareness of the scheme but not that much experience of it. I am a new headteacher and the scheme was introduced before I started.
• I am very aware of the local suppliers; they came in and introduced themselves to us personally. Plus we had an education on display evening which the scheme came to, and it allowed people to get information on the scheme. Overall, I would say I'm fairly familiar with the scheme but I do not know about the background to the scheme's development apart from an awareness of children's bad diets.
• I know it is being done in a phased way. The first school that was trailed was Hurlford Primary, but now all 11 are taking part. It is being developed to mainly use local produce.

Q2b. ( HT) How important to you and your school are environmental and sustainability issues that the pilot scheme might help address, for example through reducing the amount of miles that the food travels?

• We do not have the kitchen hear at the school, so I do not have an awareness of how far the food travels.
• We are very concerned about all environmental issues; we support minimal waste and minimal movement of produce.
• It is very important. It is included in the curriculum anyway, and I believe this scheme is helping us achieve this and helping us with educating the children about the environment.

Q3. ( CM) How long has this menu been in place?

• The current menu started in August, ran a similar menu last year. Only changed a few items.
• Menu started mid August, its all organic
• Since August. We had a previous menu set by the hungry for success scheme for the 12 months prior to this. The current menu is better; there is more choice of healthier foods for the kids. There are a number of things that kids won't eat at all, but they at least have the option.
• This menu has been in place since August. The menu prior to this was similar. The current menu is too adult, the previous menu was plainer. I think we need to tone down the menu, make it a bit plainer. Mainly because they are primary kids and are not ready for some of the flavours.
• Doesn't know much about the catering arrangements as the meals are brought by taxi from another school
• The menu has been in place since September. We had a similar menu in place for 8 weeks prior to this one, and before then we had a basic menu. The new menu is much healthier then the previous menu. Before we used to serve hot dogs, burgers, pizza, sponge and custard etc.
• Just since beginning of this school term (end of August this year)
• Since August.
• Since August. There has been a big improvement with this menu; the choice for children is a lot better.
• Since September. The menu that we used for the year prior to this was similar but this one is definitely healthier.
• Menu introduced in August. The menu is directed by the council. This new menu is more multicultural then last years and the food is healthier.

Q6. ( HT, CM) In what ways have 'healthy eating' options been introduced over the last couple of years? Have portion sizes been changed as well as the actual content of meals? Have you made any use of the Scottish Nutrition Standards in drawing up menus? IF SO - How have you used them?

• They get larger portions now then they did 2 years ago. Food is definitely healthier then it was 2 years ago.
• They have been introduced slowly by the council over the last few years. Portion sizes have definitely been larger the last 12 months.
• Portion sizes have got bigger. We do add meals to the menu but we use the recommendation guidelines given to us by the scheme and the Scottish Nutrition standards. We may add chicken curry a couple more times per month because we know the kids like it.
• The healthy options were introduced on a specific date; it was definitely the right thing to do looking back. Portion sizes definitely got bigger. We have specific weights of cheese that we have to follow when making a toastie etc.
• Not sure.
• Definitely more of an emphasis on adding more fruit and veg to the menu. No processed food at all and keeping frying down to a minimum. I would say the portions have got bigger recently. We do use the Scottish Nutrition standards when adding to the menu.
• We now have all low fat products, low fat spreads and yoghurts. Only sell low fat crisps. All processed food has been cut out. We now start with the basic ingredients, meat vegetables and cook from raw. We have been following guidelines from the government and portion sizes have increased in size.
• Meals are a lot healthier less processed food more fresh ingredients. Meals are generally much better.
• Food used to be processed; now we don't use any food like that. We now use more fruit and veg. Rice and pasta dishes have definitely increased in portions.
• Increased in fruit, we use organic meat. Portion sizes are about the same.
• More vegetables, less cake type sweets, more fruit orientated sweets, we have chips now and again but we also have boiled potatoes, jacket potatoes etc. There seems to be a bigger emphasis on food that is known to be good for children. I suspect that we are using the nutrition standards.

Q7. ( CM) How do "healthy choice" items on the menu (not the "healthiest choice" items) compare with other items in terms of uptake by the children?

• Some days when the children do not like the main courses on offer the sales of sandwiches increase. Most days there are things that they do like. Kids don't like the seafood options. All in all kids are eating the healthier options however, if its fish and chips day, most of the children opt for fish and chips.
• Something's the children just won't touch at all. The kids won't eat the creamy salmon shells, fish in a sauce at all. They love battered fish or fish in breadcrumbs, but not in a sauce. They also like the chicken Tikka. Fish and chips is always a big seller. The kids are tending to opt for the healthier foods, especially the older kids. I think it is a waste of time serving food that children are not going to eat.
• If there is fish and chips on you can forget the rest of the menu. Another example is sausage and mash, whenever that is on the vast majority will opt for that. Its still healthy ingredients, it's just not as healthy as other items that are available.
• That depends on what it is. We made an addition today I made pizza out of organic pita bread with a tomato sauce that was made of 5 different vegetables with cheese on top. That was a healthy option and was very popular. Fish and chips are always popular, but so are some of the healthy options. Macaroni cheese is a big seller and that has no fat. The kids hate oily fish. I think its because younger children are not ready for the adult taste of oily fish.
• Not sure how it affected take-up of 35 pupils. 18 have school meals; half of these are free school meals.
• Almost everything is healthy now. It is only fish and chips day that is unhealthy. When fish and chips is on the menu the majority always go for this option over the others.
• We have very few options that are not so healthy now. Fish and chips isn't classed as healthy. The ones marked with circles on the menu are healthy ones. Fish and Chips is always the favourite food and the one that always goes. That is probably the only unhealthy option that goes well. We do try to encourage eating of the healthier options, by encouraging children to try them by having a taster bowl with the dishes that are less popular (more healthy). This does work as once a child has tried something once and likes it they will select it next time.
• Its all healthy apart from Fish and Chips - obviously if there is a burger van outside doesn't help. Uptake generally very good.
• Kids will always choose fish and chips, however, I have noticed that their tastes have developed from 12 months ago and they do like some of these new healthier options.
• I do not know but I hope it would be Protein, carbohydrates, a certain amount of fat, fruit etc. I hope it would be proportionate to the needs of the children.

Q8. ( HT, CM) Would you say that you offer (a) a 'healthy eating' menu across the board, or (b) healthy eating options each day for those wishing to choose them?

• (a) "except fish and chip days the kids eat healthily most of the week."
• (a) We offer healthy options every day, I would 99% of what we serve now is healthy.
• (a) we offer healthy eating across the board.
• (a) If you offer an unhealthy option that is the one that is always eaten. The kids do not like, veg curry, fish, cous cous, but they love noodles and spaghetti with veg in it, plus we do have a burger day once per month, but we make these burgers fresh ourselves.
• (a) Very healthy apart from fish and chips
• (a) We do have some things that are unhealthy like biscuits. However the ingredients that we use are a lot healthier. It is not just chocolate and caramel like it used to be.
• (a) Across the board. Basically there are generally only two options throughout week that are not healthy.
• (a) except fish and chip days the kids eat healthily most of the week. Question why fish and chips is on the menu why not Waffles, Beans and Cheese
• (a) all the food we serve now is very healthy.
• (b) There are healthy options but there are still options for children to chose that are not so healthy like cheese toasties.
• (a) We don't sell any fizzy drinks; a lot of what we sell is organic. We sell jacket potatoes, salads, veg, healthy sandwiches etc. We have chips occasionally, so across the board we have a healthy range.

Q9. ( HT, CM) (IF NOT COVERED IN MENU) What drinks are on offer to children at mealtimes?

• Milk, Fruit juice and water.
• Milk, juice, flavoured water, water.
• Fruit juices, water, organic milk, flavoured water.
• Fruit juices, water, milk, flavoured water.
• Water, fruit juice and milk.
• Milk - flavoured and plain. Pure fruit juices, flavoured waters and water. Never ever had fizzy drinks in primary schools.
• Milk, Fruit juice and water also Organic Milk
• Milk, bottled water (not flavoured), fresh juice.
• Water, flavoured water, OJ and milk.
• Still bottled water, orange and apple juice, milk, chilled tap water.

Q10. ( HT, CM) What involvement do you have in the procurement process for food?

• I do all the ordering and keep an eye on the turnover of food.
• We don't have any involvement in the buying process. It is all done by another primary school. We just take in the prepared food and serve it.
• I buy everything. But we have a catalogue of suppliers and what they sell that we can choose from.
• I do all my own buying from specific suppliers set out by the council. They have specific contracts with the council and have agreed fixed prices for the term of the contract.
• We get told who our supplier is by the head of on site services with the council.
• It is entirely up to us which ingredients we wish to use. I am responsible for ordering. We go to selected suppliers. We aim for 30% organic and 50% local, but it is actually a lot higher than this.
• Ordering
• I buy all the food, but I have to buy the food from suppliers that the council have told me I can buy from.
• No involvement.
• No involvement, this is done by the catering staff in conjunction with the catering directive in the council.

Q11. ( HT, CM) Is there a supplier complaints procedure? IF SO, How does it operate? How well does it meet your needs?

• I have a complaints pad that I fill in every time I have a complaint. I then call the supplier and inform them of the problem. "I find the local suppliers are more friendly and helpful then the national suppliers. They will go out of their way to help you and solve the problems quicker for you."
• Yes, but we have never had to implement one.
• Yes, we deal with most of the complaints ourselves, however if something goes unresolved we send our complaints to the council. We would forward these to Robin Gourlay in the council.
• Yes, we have a booklet that we fill in and then send a copy of the complaint to the office. They complain on our behalf.
• Yes there is. We have a book with sheets in it. If there is a problem we fill in the sheets - which supplier, what the problem was, how attempted to sort it? This all gets sent to County office and if they get more then 3 forms on one supplier they will take action. To be quite honest we haven't had problems with suppliers for a long, long time. If not happy, we talk to the supplier and they generally get the products to them really quickly.'
• Yes but don't have any real problems and have a good relationship with the suppliers
• Yes, I have a pad I fill in and then report this to the council. The council complain on our behalf. But that is only for serious complaints, generally we phone the suppliers and they sort the problem out straight away.

Q12 (a)( CM) How many deliveries do you take each day/ each week? How well are suppliers able to meet your needs in terms of … the time of drops? …frequency of drops? …quantities delivered in drops?

Could suppliers make better use of the times available for drops?

• Meat man on Monday (Local), Veg man on Tuesday (Organic, local), Milkman on Tuesday (organic, local), Chips on Wednesday (National), 366 - Frozen veg (national), Brake Brothers (national) both once per week, Cheese once per month (local), eggs once per fortnight (local), Green City once per week tinned food (national). All deliveries are excellent always on time. I feel I get better service from the local butcher then the rest as I get meat in fresh on a Monday morning. I find that some of the national suppliers, like Green City, will make us take a full pack of things rather then split cases. All the local suppliers and some of the other national companies deliver exact quantities we request.
• Corrie Main Farm eggs once per fortnight (local), Brownings Bakery daily delivery (local), Green city organic grocery items every fortnight (national), Ashton Glen Meats every week (local), Clyde organic milk every week (local), Dunlop dairy cheese once per month (local), fruit and veg once per week organic (local), 3663 frozen food once per week (national), Ionotti Bros fruit juice and water (local), Carruthers once per week (national), Brake Bros (national) once per week. Deliveries and quantities are good from all supplies. Very happy apart from the organic fruit and veg. We have it delivered once per week, but it does not last. We ideally need deliveries twice per week. There is no difference between local and national deliveries.
• Butchers (local) weekly, 3663 frozen food supply (national) weekly. Ionotti (national) drinks and healthy crisps weekly, Cheese once per month (local), Green city (regional) grocers weekly, Veg (local, organic), Carruthers (national) fruit and veg, we supply primary 1, 2, 3 fruit for free 3 times per week. We cannot afford organic fruit this often. Brake Bros. (national) grocer, Bars (national) drinks, eggs (local), baker (local). Milk (organic, local). Deliveries are excellent, however we have to except large deliveries from national companies due to them supplying all over the country and only prepared to deliver once per week. Local co's are more prepared to make multiple deliveries and help you out. Green City do ask for a minimum amount, local co's drop exact quantities. In order to get a milk supply we had to put larger fridge's in so we could take weekly deliveries. Otherwise we would not be able to have organic milk.
• N/A
• Baker comes everyday (local), milk comes once per week (local, organic), butcher once per week (local), organic local veg and a national normal veg supplier once per week. Organic grocery store comes once per week. Plus a national grocer that comes once per week with items I cannot get organic. Organic cheese and eggs delivery once per week (local). The deliveries are excellent and on time. quantities are a problem with the organic veg. It doesn't last as long as normal veg so that is why we take deliveries of normal veg as well, to supplement the organic veg.
• Mon/ Tues/ Weds - busiest days with suppliers. Daily bread orders coming in, Meat once a week, (it is vacuum packed.) Grocery - one organic and one ordinary - once a week (more if they require them.) Cheese - once a month supply. Milk once a week. - We are very happy with the way the suppliers operate. However, sometimes you wish you had fruit and veg on Monday morning, but you have to realise, not everybody can have it on Monday morning as they are delivering to other schools as well. The meat did once start to come in too early, but it was sorted when we approached the butcher. The suppliers that are local are probably with them earlier (fruit and veg), the local dairy mid morning. (last drop as nearest to him.) We don't tell the children that some dishes are organic and some are not. This is because it would be almost impossible to do a completely organic dish.
• Because one of the organic schools has two drops of everything. Apart from that no issue with frequency number of deliveries in a ideal world would like to be less nut not a major problem. Very happy with local supply and the fact you can ring them up at short notice and get them to deliver small drops. As long as have a good relationship with the driver can organise best time for drops between driver and catering staff.
• Milk weekly (local, organic), green city weekly (national), eggs once per fortnight (local), fruit and veg weekly (local, organic), butchers (local), Carruthers twice per week (national), Bakers daily (local). Overall we do prefer local suppliers, they are very friendly and are always willing to help you out whenever there is a problem. Deliveries are always on time, never a problem from either national or local suppliers.

Q12. (b) ( CM) Are there any constraints to the size of vehicle that could deliver to you premises, would you welcome larger vans, fewer drops? ( e.g. Suppliers collaborating on distribution)

• We would like 2 drops per week from the organic vegetables company. At the moment we are down for one drop per week. We would prefer 2 in order to keep the vegetables fresher. We find that during the later part of the week the vegetables start to go off, so ideally we need to arrange 2 deliveries. I just need to get around to organising it.
• No, we are happy with the deliveries and the quantities we receive them in at the moment.
• We are quite happy with smaller vehicles and regular drops, it works well.
• It is a problem for larger vehicles because we have a small entrance to the school.
• no problems. Kitchen doorway is right at the front of school.
• No constraints larger vans fewer drops would be useful but have to take into account storage.
• No, but we prefer the smaller deliveries.

Q12. (c) ( CM) Are you happy with the quality of the ingredients? (Please comment on particular types and reasons you think there are any problems)

• Some of the organic veg does not last as long as the other vegetables we used to have. However they are fresher.
• Yes, I am very happy with the quality of food we receive
• Yes, very happy.
• We are 100% happy with the new ingredients. The quality of meat, eggs, bread, veg are so much better then national companies. It really improves the quality and taste of dishes.
• Quality of the meals is excellent
• Yes, very happy. I am happy with both the organic local foods and the national suppliers.
• Yes
• Very happy, sometime the organic fruit doesn't look as good as conventional.
• Yes very happy.

Q12. (d) ( CM) Are you happy with the packaging ( e.g. size, weight)?

• Happy with packaging.
• Yes. We don't get much waste. The local suppliers take their boxes away with them when we are finished with them.
• We are happy with packaging. Packaging from local producers and the farms are so much better because there is less of it, there is less waste.
• The amount of packing from suppliers is a lot especially from national suppliers. However, the local suppliers ask us for the boxes back so they can re-use them.
• Yes happy..... however with the fruit and veg merchant - they talk in kilos, I am used to visualising 1 or 3 cauliflowers and can't think in kilos. Got around that by talking about the shape of rugby balls.
• Yes happy with packaging
• Yes packaging is good from both national and local suppliers.

Q12. (e) ( CM) How much packaging waste is produced? How could this be reduced?

• We do produce a lot of packaging waste. We recycle cardboard. We get more plastic waste from Green City, however, the packaging between local cos and national cos is much the same. They could all do with cutting down on packaging.
• There really is not much waste.
• As a catering manager I don't think national companies can reduce their packaging because we buy in bulk and the food does need to be protected.
• A lot should be reduced.
• Local Fruit and veg come in boxes and wooden crates and you can see that it is not pre packed. We have no problem with that. Comes straight out into fridge. We then don't have a lot of boxes to break up - However, with the some of the suppliers that come from further away we have to get rid of boxes. Believe that there may be looking at recycling for this waste. But at moment. Broken up and put into bins
• Packaging from local suppliers is good, national suppliers could do with cutting down on their packaging. We do get a lot of waste from them.

Q14. ( CM) As a catering manager, what is your biggest concern at the moment (staff levels, ingredients, training etc)?

• Finding time to do paper work. Also I would like the children to be more knowledgeable about healthy options. It would make our job easier. The headteacher tries to educate the kids but there is no reinforcement when they go home. Maybe the parents need to be better educated. "One parent wrote a letter to me requesting that I should no longer serve her child vegetables!"
• We have more to do now; we have more paper work to do which fills our time more.
• There is a lot more extra work at the moment, mainly for me. I have to do a lot more preparation of food and bookwork. I think it is better in terms of the menu just harder for me. I feel I am understaffed, all I need is one more person for 2 hours to help with food prep and I would be able to do my job better. Maybe it just takes time to get used to.
• Children don't recognise ordinary food like, peas, turnips etc. They need to be educated more and become more familiar with cooking and especially cooking with veg.
• The organic food is very expensive and there is no way the government will be able to keep subsidising this. If organic suppliers could go regional and get their prices down, then it could work. Staff levels are a problem, especially if any one is off sick because we are no longer aloud to employ anyone to help out. This is due to police checks. Getting repairs done is also a worry.
• There are not enough hours - Not enough labour to cover the work. This issue has been ongoing for a long while. However, more of an issue now since starting new menus as since organic, everything is cooked from raw and take a lot longer in terms of preparation and we do not have the hands to do it.
• Staffing - Not enough staff this is particularly acute when someone is off sick and have to use temps as they have poor training so aren't very efficient.
• Trying to get a happy medium across the board. Trying to produce healthy alternatives that children really want. Also costs are a big concern for the future.

Q15. ( CM) Please could you describe your facilities for storing food and drink?

• 2 large food stores. Large metal containers. 2 large fridges and 1 large freezer. We have plenty of space for storing all food.
• We store the juice in a fridge that we're sent every day. We don't need much storage space as we take what we need each day.
• I have 2 stores, one freezer, shelves, dry store, and 3 fridges. I have enough space to store all my products.
• We have 4 fridges, 2 freezers, a tin store, and a dry store, fruit and veg store. We have plenty of space to store our weekly deliveries.
• 2 large fridges, 2 large freezers, 1 large dry store, a tin store and a veg store. Our storage areas are large enough for us.
• - 4 fridges - 1 meat and meat products, 1 prepared salads and sandwich fillings. And the other 2 fruit and milk and one for veg., dried/canned/tinned, - store rooms frozen - 2 freezers, chilled, drinks cases stored in store cupboard, We also have 2 small fridges from milk marketing board which we put the milk and fruit juice in when serving.
• For the fresh produce we have now, we have got an extra 2 fridge's and 2 freezers. We have enough space for all our food. We have a dry store, tin store, and a veg store.
• Dry store, 2 large fridges, organic store, freezers and a cold store for veg. We have plenty of room for storing all the food.
• We have fridges for drinks, large fridge in the kitchen, freezers and stores out the back. We have plenty of room for storage.
• We have 2 big chill cabinets and one large freezer. We have fruit delivered daily.

Q16. ( CM) How do these facilities affect your ability to receive deliveries or maintain the quality of fresh products

• Doesn't affect us. My only comment is that we need 2 deliveries per week for veg rather then just the one we get at present.
• Doesn't affect us, we only receive deliveries as prepared food.
• The facilities are fine, the only problem I am having is with the organic veg and the way around that problem is to receive deliveries twice per week.
• We are not affected.
• If everything is going well there is no problem. However if we have a brake down we have a major problem, and it seems to take ages to get equipment repaired.
• We have enough storage - no problems
• We don't have much waste produce, we tend to maintain the quality of the fresh produce quite well.
• Don't affect us, sometimes the organic veg goes off but that is natural for organic veg. Maybe a larger cold store would be appropriate to help the organic veg last longer.
• No problems.
• I don't know, but I'm sure they would tell me if they had. Food is delivered approximately 4 times per week.

Q17. ( CM) Are any changes to these facilities planned in the near future?

• We are re-decorating the serving area, to create more space and improve the look of the canteen.
• No changes planned although we do need a new dinning area, there is plenty of space, it is just very old.
• No
• We have had a number of changes already made. We are getting a computer, the dinning room is a good size.
• N/A
• Yes, our kitchens are getting knocked down next year and we are having new kitchens and a dining hall built.
• No not that know of
• We are looking at changing the menus. The key schools in the scheme are analysing a week each. I'm currently doing a costing exercise for week 1 to see if we are justified spending this money on organic food compared to the waste we are producing. We are hoping to be next in line for a refurbishment of the dining and kitchen facilities. At present we share with a sports hall.
• No changes
• No plans.
• Not unless there is a change to the menu. We are having an "eat more fish campaign" whereby if the children eat an oily fish they get a badge and a key ring. This has been influenced by the Scottish Executive. Our kitchens are not going to be decorated as we are merging with another school in 2 years time so there is no point.

Q18. ( CM) How has (How would) the introduction or more healthy options in the menu been affected by these facilities? In what ways have you been (would you be) limited?

• In Ayrshire we have always served fresh food. We have always prepared fresh food, so the facilities have not hindered us in the kitchen.
• Because we have to offer more food now, I do struggle in displaying all the food so the kids can see it. Probably could do with more serving space.
• We have had to get an extra fridge, but apart from that we have not had any limitations with the facilities
• It has not had a detrimental affect, however numbers of kids having school dinners have decreased, but that could be due to decreasing student numbers anyway. Taking that into consideration numbers have decreased slightly, and that is due to the introduction of healthy foods.
• N/A
• We have not really been limited in any way.
• No issues
• I thought my numbers were going to drop, but they haven't, and I can see that by secondary school most will be converted to healthier foods. One stumbling block though is fish. We are really struggling to get them to eat fish. I would like to see the freedom of developing our own menus, but we must keep the healthy aspect. Initially, the uptake of fruit was slow, but now I have noticed a much larger consumption of fruit.
• Not been limited
• Not limited.
• It hasn't limited the preparation of dinners at all. We have not been limited.

Q19. ( CM) How has food preparation changed over the last few years? E.g. more chopping up of fresh ingredients? , more use of herbs or spices? More dishes made to recipes rather than taken as prepared dishes?

• We chop up a lot more veg then we used to, and we don't bake as much as we used to. Now we have stopped cooking the starchy puddings we have the time to prepare the main courses from fresh. We find we are using more herbs and spices then we used to. We also use more recipes then we used to. Previously we used to prepare our own menus and have them approved by the council. Now the council tell us what the menu is and what food we have to prepare. We have been influenced by the "Hungry for Success scheme" and the "Healthy Choice award". These projects have had a positive affect on the school as a whole.
• We don't cook here and do not plan to in the future.
• There is more preparation time now, we are using more spices and getting more adventurous. I know all about the food for life, hungry for success schemes. They have been working very well. I think the hungry for success scheme has had the biggest impact on the school and the school meals so far.
• More fruit and veg preparation now.
• N/A
• Yes, less frying, more cooking, less processed foods and less baking. We use more cold sweets nowadays. We work to recipes that are supplied by the council. Originally when we changed over the kids moaned a lot about the new food, but you don't here that now. We are not allowed to take anything off the menu, but we are allowed to add to it. I sometimes add macaroni, roast beef, curry, jacket potatoes extra vegetables etc. I think the hungry for success scheme has had the biggest impact of all the schemes. Maybe this is just the timing of it and the fact that children are learning about health foods in school and know more now. They know what is good and what is bad for them.
• Yes more time intensive, more preparation, we use a lot more fresh herbs (we were using dried). Hungry for Success came first.. Food for Life - 6 or 8 weeks ago, Pilot scheme has only since summer.
• A lot more preparation and use of whole meats as opposed to things like mince.
• We have gone more back to basics. We don't deal with any processed food now, we cook everything from fresh, which is good but does take us a lot longer.

Q20. (a) ( CM) How many staff are employed for preparing and cooking food? How has this changed over the last few years?

• We employ 5 staff in the kitchen. This is the same number as 5 years ago. The reason for this is the number of children attending the school has dropped in recent years due to the number of people living in the local village shrinking. I used to serve 180 meals and now I only serve 120. We only have 140 children in the school now, so we serve a high percentage. Even with the number of meals falling we still need to retain the level of staff due to extra time required to prepare food from fresh.
• N/A
• I do most of that my self. The girls help prep veg, but I cook all the dinners. I prepare approx. 140 dinners for this school and more dinners for another school. I do struggle to fit everything into the working day. Staff levels are just the same.
• We have 4 staff. This number is the same as 3 years ago. The schemes have had an affect on how we work. The menus alone have given us more work to do, the job is more involved now. There is a massive difference between preparing processed food and cooking from scratch. The food for life scheme has had the biggest impact as it is encouraging us to use local organic food instead of processed foods.
• N/A
• 5. We have always employed 5. We do have more work now but we are coping. We will be starting a breakfast club when we get the new kitchens.
• Herself and one other lady (25 hours), and 2 extra people to serve only. We also prepare for the nursery(10/15 children) over 300 in school (We generally supply 130/140 school meals then this goes up at end of week to about 191 -Never same number each day.). This school also uses the same menu for a local day care centre - elderly, sheltered housing schemes - prepare 2 days a week (Mon/Wed). This number of staff has not changed since before Hungry for Success.
• 3 staff in total. I do the main cooking and I have 2 helpers that do sandwiches, toasties and potatoes etc. Staff levels have been the same over the last few years.
• 2 staff are employed directly for cooking. This has not changed over the years. We are however pushed with time. We do struggle to prepare food in time. We could do with more catering staff.
• 4 staff. This number has fallen from 5 over the last 3 years. The workload has increased for staff in the kitchen in the last 12 months.
• 4 staff are currently employed to prepare meals. This is the same as was employed 4 years ago. I have not noticed that it takes any longer to prepare the dinners, they are still served everyday at the same time.

Q20 (b) ( HT, CM) Is there a need for more training of catering staff? If so does this relate to Preparation, Cooking etc ? Admin, ordering, dealing with suppliers?

• There is always a need to train staff and keep them up to date with new standards.
• N/A
• Yes, in terms of preparation and cooking.
• Always a need for ongoing training. Mainly for updating cooking skills, marketing dinners, etc.
• N/A
• There is always a need for more training of catering staff. Training is essential for basic cooking and teaching new techniques, just to give them more confidence.
• Yes certainly on the cooking, as if I ever have to go out all day I have to cook it all the day before and then leave instructions on how to heat and serve etc.
• Yes particularly on temporary staff as discussed earlier.
• No we use our skills well to meet the demand of the increased workload.
• No, I think they are well catered for.
• I don't know. I don't think so.

Q21. ( HT, CM) How has (How would) the introduction of more healthy options in the menu directly affected your preparation and cooking of food? In what ways have you been (would you be) limited by staff numbers and skills?

• Where we have lost time preparing main courses from fresh, we have gained time not having to prepare deserts. We no longer spend the mornings baking tarts etc, so the time we save there we allocate to fresh food preparation. So it has kind of evened its self out. I don't think any of the schemes have had an affect on the way we work, our day is pretty much the same, its just now we are preparing more fresh food.
• N/A
• We get told how many staff we are allowed to have. I find that the staff are struggling with the skills they have to complete work in time.
• I have not been limited in staff numbers or skills. But they have got extra work to do. They have had to use their skills more to do all the work.
• N/A
• Over the years our hours have been cut due to less preparation of food and the use of more processed food. Now we are cooking from scratch again we are under pressure because we are still working to the cut back hours.
• Takes a lot longer. Staff numbers haven't increased. There is a lot more preparation of the food. We chop fruit into small containers and don't have anyone who can do that for her. If she had someone extra they could do that.
• More preparation of food and proper cooking as opposed to heating up food. Skills not an issue with permanent staff more with temporary staff.
• Takes longer to prepare, coped the best we could, we do struggle at times though.
• That is a question for the catering manager.
• Don't know. I have not heard any of the staff complaining, but I have heard that staff have thought it was a waste of time to prepare food that the children repeatedly do not eat.

Q22a. ( CM) Please could you comment on the issues that you might face in this respect in terms of improving the quality of your menu and the healthy choices available? What limitations might you face?

• Don't really have any limitations.
• The menu does not suit all the children. The older ones eat mostly anything, but the younger ones are very fussy and don't like the fancy foods. The council should ask for our opinions when constructing the menu. We know what the children like.
• The menus are fine, the suppliers are great. I don't think it can be improved.
• Simplify the menus. Still give the kids veg and maintain the healthy side of things but just use plainer recipes at primary level. They are not ready for adult tastes yet. The only problem is queues and getting children though quick enough. It is something we are looking at.
• N/A
• If you have to stick to organic food you have to adapt the menu so it is flexible for seasonal food and some organic food that just isn't available. Cost is the other limitation, not right now but it will be.
• The only things that affects supplies from fruit and veg point of view is that fruit and veg is seasonal. There maybe something that organic supplier cannot supplier so use a non-organic supplier. The menus need to reflect the seasons. They would need to reflect that fruit and veg are seasonal.
• Only limitation is on the flexibility of the menu being able to use same ingredients but in a different way.
• The limitation is with organic food, it is not always available. Therefore the menu should be more flexible.
• Children are limitations in themselves. Healthy foods need to be introduced slowly because children instinctively go for the familiar. We use peer pressure to influence the children to try new food. Once they know its not that bad it catches on with other kids. So to begin with we introduce new food as samples.

Q22b. ( CM) What limitations, if any, have you faced in the past in procuring food that is from Ayrshire and/ or is organic?

• Occasionally the local supplier can't get some vegetables and we have to look elsewhere. This happens mostly with seasonal veg.
• N/A
• No limitations, but what bothers me is the organic fruit and veg. This food is seasonal, so when we are out of season where are they getting the veg from. They are obviously going abroad which I believe misses the point of the scheme for local produce.
• Organic milk containers. We could get organic milk but not in the packaging we needed. We could pour it into a cup but that is messy with young kids. Plus the price is limiting.
• N/A
• Everything has been more or less available. No problems so far.
• Spring onions
• Only limitation has been on price of organic for instance a 25kg bag of organic potatoes would have cost £30 but instead used local which was £6 so not really a problem
• Sometimes the food is not available and they have had to ship in potatoes from Egypt.
• Need to talk to CM.
• We don't have many limitations, however the main one is price. There are a lot of concerns about whether the quality of food can continue at these prices. Because organic food is so much more expensive. However that opinion has died down recently.

Q23a. ( HT, CM) How importance do you think it is to build connections between Ayrshire-based suppliers and schools, especially the catering staff who will have the best understanding of the needs of the school?

IF IMPORTANT, ASK: Q23b. How can connections like this best be developed?

• Yes, its very important, local suppliers are more friendly. They will go out of their way to suit you, if you forget something you can phone them up and they will help you out. National companies are not like that are not as flexible. All our connections with local suppliers are excellent.
• That's a very good thing, it is good for the local people. Regular meetings and discussions. In my experience we only tend to communicate over the phone, there needs to be more face-to-face communication.
• I think it's a great thing that we buy locally. It supports the local community and gives people in the local community jobs. They contact us personally and talk to us regularly. I like that personal contact.
• Very important, for the economy, for the children at the school and for the parents of the children because some families may work for these local co's so we are supporting them. The local farmers who are supplying us came in and did a talk on what they supply and bought in chickens, fruit etc and sold the idea of their products to the kids. The cheese co did a sampling session that worked very well.
• N/A
• It is very important because there is high unemployment in East Ayrshire so we are helping the community. Plus it is handy, because if you run out of something the local supplier will go out of their way to help you, whereas the national supplier usually wouldn't. Just putting it out to tender.
• Very - I think if the suppliers knows the staff they will know what they want. Although all the schools are working on same menu we don't provide the same quantity of food. If supplier knows you, you can converse with them. With local ones you get to know them better. With other suppliers you can't really get to know them as it is not always the same person. Talking with them on the phone.
• Very important just get a much better quality of service from local suppliers. Just day-to-day communication between catering staff and suppliers.
• It is important, everyone in the community benefits. By the farmers and local producers promoting themselves more within the community and to the parents and pupils in the school.
• Very important, we want to support the local community and the local farmers. Face to face. A lot of our local suppliers have come into the school and introduced themselves personally, I think that has a big impact. We also asked our local suppliers to get involved in our health week. They sent a display of fruit which promoted our catering service for school dinners and promoted their own fruit sales to the parents.
• Very important, as it is helping the local economy as well. I think it is best done by those who are involved in the schemes and the directorates within the council who are leading the program.

Q23c. What connections, if any, do you already have with suppliers based in Ayrshire?

• We buy fresh veg, meat, eggs and milk from local suppliers.
• Mainly deal with the drivers
• With the local suppliers we already deal with.
• Bakers, butchers, cheese and egg co etc.
• N/A
• We have a good relationship with the butcher and the baker. They are always friendly and always willing to help.
• Only just over the telephone. Fruit and veg lady on first name terms. Organic local suppliers - butcher introduced themselves and use first name terms.
• From the existing contracts
• Butcher, baker, farmers, and all our other local suppliers, we talk to them regularly.
• Bakers, butchers, veg suppliers, farms etc.
• Don't know.

Q24. ( HT) How supportive would you say your school is of this pilot scheme?

• We support the use of more organic food in schools, we only have organic food that is included in the menu.
• We are very supportive of the scheme, we believe it is very important.
• We have been very supportive, we were told we were taking part, but we have done everything to try and make it successful.

Q24a. ( CM, HT). In your view how important is a school meal to the overall daily nutrition of children in your school?

• Very important, very few go home on nighttime and have a properly cooked dinner.
• Very important, if it is a free meal it is very important because this may be the only hot meal they have all day. So it is very important.
• Very important. It is possible that this is the one main meal that they may get each day.
• It is very important. We are a very deprived area, we have 60 students that are entitled to free school dinners.
• Very important especially because many of the children come from very deprived areas many just don't have experience of fresh produce. Half the school meals taken in the school are free. This area has a very poor track record on health e.g. Heart Disease, Dental Health so very important
• Very important. It may be the only hot meal of the day for some children and only snack when they go home.
• Quite important - children quite often do not have breakfast, so could be first meal of day. Also, school is quite active, after schools clubs, gardening clubs, rugby, decent balance diet is needed so they can cope with that and don't fall asleep. There are some who don't get proper food at home. A lot of parents cannot cook. A lot of parents come and say they can't cook - all prepared food, rarely get fresh fruit and veg. Mum pulls out pack and thinks that's vegetables - so it is very important.
• Very important for many children it's the only decent meal they get all day
• Very important, some children don't get proper meals at home.
• I think it is vital. There are a lot of kids that eat healthily at home and will not loose anything by eating healthily at school, but there are those children who do not eat healthily at home and it is important to teach them to eat healthily and help them make the right choices.
• Very important. Too many children take packed lunches, I don't agree with that because moms give children food that they know they will eat. With school dinners you get a variety of healthy options.

Q24b ( HT, CM) How might a healthy food initiative, like the local foods in schools pilot scheme that East Ayrshire Council is introducing, benefit the catering staff in the school? ( e.g. have you noticed any change in children's' behaviour)

• At first it was very stressful. The children did not want to eat veg but now they are ok. A lot more children are trying different things at lunchtimes.
• We are trying to get the kids to eat the food but it doesn't affect us personally. If the children don't like anything we try to encourage them to try something else.
• I don't think it benefits us in any way.
• The children have become more aware, and want the healthier option. This has come from the education in class and the press we have had surrounding our food initiative.
• Job is more interesting because we are cooking more and we have more pride in what we serve.
• Not really affected behaviour. We do keep plugging away to get them to try something different and quite often try to get them to try something new. Makes the staff feel more satisfied - using different herbs and spices - more motivations, job satisfaction - especially if kids like it.
• It is more work need to be adequately staffed
• It helps us to be more informed about healthy eating and re-educating the kids.
• The children are a lot fussier over food now, whereas before the kids would always have burgers and chips.
• There has been no change in children's behaviour. A lot of the kids were very keen to try the new menu when it first came out.

[POST-PILOT INTERVIEWS ONLY] Q24b. ( HT, CM) How does a healthy food initiative, like the local foods in schools pilot scheme that East Ayrshire Council has introduced, benefit the catering staff in the school? ( e.g. have you noticed any change in children's' behaviour)

Q25. ( HT) What are the benefits to other staff in the school?

• Nice school meals
• All the teachers love the school meals because they taste so good.
• The staff can also eat healthier, plus it is important for the children to see the staff eating healthier. Because there is nothing like leading by example. Some teachers will actually discuss with the students what is available and the health benefits behind them.
• Some of the staff eat at school and it's a good thing because they can help educate the children with healthy eating.

Q25a. ( HT, CM) What other benefits might the scheme have, for example in terms of children's' health?

• They get vitamins and fibre from the veg that they never had before.
• I think the food we serve now does benefit a child's health. They are eating much healthier.
• Very beneficial. One meal a day won't improve their health but it will help towards educating them about healthy eating and their lifestyle.
• We now know where the meat is coming from so we know the quality we are getting and that it meets the right standards whereas if the meat was coming from Brazil they may not have the same standards as we do. This must improve their health, the fruit and veg will definitely improve the nutrition they are getting.
• A reduction in additives in the food, I'd hope to see an improvement in children's behaviour and performance.
• Making the children more aware of what is healthy and what is not healthy, and hopefully improve their diet.
• It tastes better, the food is natural, there are no pesticides in it so in the long run, it must be healthier. The organic fruit is definitely better then the local fruit.
• I think it is good that they are getting healthier food. I feel sometimes we need supervision for the children to make sure they eat at least half of what they are given. I do throw away a lot of food.
• The food now is a lot better, it will improve their health and I believe it will help reduce their hyperactivity.
• If children are having a healthier diet on a regular basis, it is obvious it is going to improve their health and affect what they eat when they are adults.
• I would hope the children would see the benefits later in life. I hope it would go some way to help preventing obesity and heart problems. Plus I hope it gives children that do not eat this well at home a look at a different way of eating. They see other adults eating like this and hopefully they will take these influences home and not go down the chip shop on a night. Hopefully they will review their own eating habits.

Q26. ( HT, CM) How important do you think it is that local suppliers, by which I mean suppliers from Ayrshire, play a larger role in supplying food to local schools?

• It is very important. When I started 24 years ago all we used were local suppliers. This is the way forward and is important that we use them more.
• Make themselves known more to us and the children.
• Very important.
• Hugely important, it is definitely the way forward.
• Important
• It is very important.
• Very good initiative - getting it a lot fresher coming from local shop/ local farmer. Getting it much quicker. If got a problem with supplier they are a lot nearer you and they can change it much quicker.
• Very important
• Very important as it benefits everyone in the community.
• It is important that they play a role but only where the food is of an appropriate quality.
• Very important.

Q27. ( HT, CM) How important do you think it is that organic suppliers play a larger role in supplying food to local schools?

• Very important.
• I'm not organic minded. It is very expensive I think we should use local suppliers not necessarily organic.
• Very beneficial for all involved. I don't think children can tell the difference between an organic potato and a normal potato.
• Not so important. It is good and if I could afford to buy everything organic then I would. But, I think it is more important to buy local then organic. The reason behind this is because one farmer told me that he had organic beans on next week and that they were coming in from Egypt. I don't think that is right, I would much rather go local non-organic.
• Important
• It would be nice and better for kids but the cost isn't realistic.
• I think the organic scheme is better as the taste of the food is 100% better and I think that encourages the children to eat it.
• Very important
• Quite important.
• That is quite important as well.
• It is very important for organic suppliers to supply schools.

Q27a. ( HT, CM) To what extent do you think that the extra cost of including more food from organic and local suppliers in the school meals menu is justified?

• Yes I do. There is definitely a better standard of food being served. It is worth the cost.
• There is a benefit and the price is justified, but only of the kids eat it. A lot of this food goes to waste. I think the trial needs to be done for a while to change the kids minds so they will take it up. Hopefully they will, I believe the kids should learn the basics of cooking so they can cook at home instead of eating pre-packaged foods.
• To me the cost is not justified. I think they would be far better spending extra money on giving children free soup and a free drink with their meals. I agree with healthy eating but the organic side of it is not necessary.
• Yes I do think it is justified in terms of health. However, I would not say that the cost of Organic food is justified. I would find it had to justify organic but I would definitely justify local food. We bought some organic granny smith apples last week for 59p each. We were selling them for 20p each. We can't go down that route, its not justified even though the organic food does taste better.
• Obviously there is a limited amount of money. But I think it is important and should be encouraged.
• It doesn't really make much of a difference in terms of the children's health, as they tend not to eat the vegetables anyway. I find this quite a difficult question to answer because I don't know what chemicals are used in the local produce. The organic food does taste nicer, but I don't know whether that warrants the price we are paying.
• I think it is worth the extra money. Although I have found that in some cases the difference in price between local and organic is not that different. It really does depend on the item.
• I think there is a lot of wasted money. We are throwing away a lot of food. The organic side of food is a lot better quality then the local food. It is worth the extra cost but only if they get a balance between the two. Why dress up the menu when you know the kids won't eat it but they would eat it if we left it plain. This is what I mean about each school being able to adapt their own menu.
• In terms of the meat, I saw a massive difference. The quality of the meat was far better and definitely justified the price. However, in terms of the fruit and veg I would say that the difference is marginal and the cost isn't justified. At the end of day the fruit is healthier but I don't think the cost is justified.
• It is very justified. I believe it is justified to spend more on organic food as well. The food is healthier, it is more attractive, it is more favourable.
• I think it is justified. The kitchen staff however, have commented to me how expensive organic produce is. They are concerned about the cost. I have told them to go ahead and continue purchasing the food because it is not coming out of our budget, plus they are told to. Also I believe that the cost isn't important when you compare it to a child's health.

Q28. ( HT, CM) I'd like to go through a list of activities related to promoting healthy eating that you may either have been involved in already, or that you may be involved in the future. Please could you tell me what you think of each one in terms of its suitability for your school, and the benefits that it could have for those taking part.

Hosting an introduction and tasting session for the Soil Association's 'Food for Life' programme to improve school meals

• We have had this session. We have done this a few times and it has been very successful. The kids loved it and tried a number of different foods. It let the kids experiment and try different foods to see what they like, because it was free and all their friends were trying the food they were not scared to have a go.
• That is a good idea. We have not done this yet, but when a child starts school in primary 1, the parents and children come and sample the food as part of their induction. The benefit is that they can see what is on offer and encourage the parent and children to have school dinners.
• We are doing this on the 1st December. Robin Gourlay is coming in to talk to parents about healthy eating. There will be a tasting session for parents and children. I hope it will benefit parents and children.
• I think that is important. We have demo and tasting days that we invite parents to. It helps with awareness of healthy foods.
• Important and applicable
• We had a health fair here last week, we had a section on healthy puddings and the parents came in and tested what we were offering. It was very successful.
• Not done
• Kids and parents have an induction when they first start, plus kids can try food whenever they wish. We are looking at setting up a tasting session for parents and children. It would benefit both parents and children as it would make them more aware and hopefully encourage them to cook themselves.
• Our kids try food as and when on a lunchtime so there is no need for us to do that. By doing this we can get kids to try different foods.
• We do this at primary 1. Our children tend to sample during lunchtimes any way.
• We haven't done this one yet, but I think it is a good idea and is certainly one I will be taking up. We have a health day planned shortly and will look to include it in that. It would give kids a better understanding of what's on offer.

Saturday open days for parents, to promote the Food for Life scheme and the Scottish Executive's Hungry for Success scheme ( N.B. Does this overlap with the activity above?)

• No, but have had parents come along on a lunchtime to sample the food and see what foods the children will be eating. A lot of schools in the area do this, I don't think it was inspired by any scheme. The headmaster started this so maybe he was inspired by a scheme.
• I don't know whether that would help.
• I don't think this would work, the one we are doing on December 1st is on an evening.
• We had an open day on a weekday when we first started the healthy eating options. We had a decent turnout but it would have been better on a Saturday. It benefits both parent and child as the parent can see what the child is eating.
• Important and applicable anything that raises the importance of nutrition at home is very important
• Not keen on a Saturday. We are doing one during the week anyway.
• Do not know about these. Could be useful though as lots of parents work in week. Sometimes have open days for children coming to school for first time and feed parents then, but sometimes parents can't come so it's a shame that they should miss out
• This is a good idea and is something we are thinking about.
• We have not done this but it would be a good idea.
• We already did this. We take part in a scheme called "Education on display", every learning partnership puts on a display and ours was a healthy eating cookery demo. Including tasting sessions for parents and kids. It allows parents to see what is now on offer to kids at lunchtimes. So many still think of school dinners as jam tart and custard.
• We have not done this but we do have a tasting session for parents at the start of each school year so they can sample the menus. We may do an open day session for parents in school time in the future.

An awareness session for teaching staff about the same 'Food for Life' programme

• No, but maybe the headmaster may be do something in the future. It would benefit the school if one was done.
• It would be a good thing, I think some schools would benefit.
• When we have fish and chips day, the teachers are in the canteen having fish and chips. I think teachers should lead by example and be seen eating health food. They should know all this about healthy eating, so I don't think a course would benefit them.
• We have done this. This is important as the teacher should be selling the idea of healthy eating to kids and encouraging them to try different foods.
• Important and applicable. Trying to develop food more into the curriculum just a matter of time
• We have not done this. It would be a good idea, I have noticed a change in kids knowledge of healthy foods which must come from the teachers. Also it Is important for teachers to eat in the canteen as children will copy them.
• No not done
• A lot of the teachers have a healthy lesson in their classes. Plus the teachers do try the healthy food and encourage the children to try the range of food.
• This would be good as it would help sell school dinners to children and is important that teachers should be encouraging the pupils.
• We send out documents to staff but we have not had an awareness session. I think it is something we would consider for our next health week.
• I think that is a good idea. They may decide to use the canteen more and promote healthy eating in their classes.

An awareness session for catering staff about the same 'Food for Life' programme

• I always keep staff up to date with new information from meetings I go to. It would be good for catering staff to attend some of these meetings themselves.
• This would benefit us. But we are here everyday so we know what's on offer.
• Maybe, I have been on these courses but the other staff haven't. It my benefit them to understand the reasons behind the scheme other then me just telling them.
• Yes, they need to understand what it is all about. They need to be given the information so they feel a part of what is going on and can encourage the children to take part, rather then being told that this is what we are doing. It is important for their motivation as well.
• This would be beneficial. It is always the catering managers that go away on these courses, it would be good for the staff and their motivation if they could go on these courses as well.
• No not done
• Yes, this is a good idea. Us catering managers go to a lot of meetings but we don't have enough time to inform the rest of our catering staff. So a session for them would definitely be helpful, and help them understand what we are trying to achieve.
• This would benefit us as we could also see why we are doing this and what benefits it is bringing for the children.
• It would be difficult to get all people in the same place at the same time, but it would be better then just the catering manager feeding back to the catering staff.
• We may have had that already.

A demonstration session for parents on Healthy Cooking Tips

• There is a community healthy eating class at the school held once per year for parents. It is nothing to do with the catering team, don't know if it is related to any schemes. I think it's a good idea for parents to attend these classes as it educates them in healthy eating and shows them how easy it is to prepare healthy food.
• Everyone from primary 1 should have cookery lessons every week. So they know how to cook healthy food especially when they are older.
• This is happening on the 1st December. I hope it will benefit parents but I don't know whether it will. I believe we should be educating the parents more. They cook for their children when they are not at school.
• Great, anything that encourages parents to cook healthily at home because some have no idea.
• We are having one of these sessions next month. We are hoping it will encourage parents to send their child for more school meals. Plus we are hoping parents will see how easy it is and go home and cook themselves.
• No not done. Have heard of - quite good as a lot of parents cannot cook. If they has an idea how to prepare food they may do it.
• Yes this is a good idea and is something we are thinking about
• This would be a good idea and would encourage parents to support their children to have school dinners and may even encourage the parents to cook healthily at home.
• We have done ready steady cook for children but not for parents. But something like that would be good, and we could incorporate that into our parents afternoon.
• This is happening on our health day in Feb. Hopefully it will promote healthy eating at home.

Articles in the local press on improved meals in local schools

• Hurlford Primary School have been in the paper a number of times with their healthy eating scheme. So have some other schools but not us. Getting our school in the paper would benefit the school as it would help create more awareness amongst parents of healthy eating.
• We have had no press. I have only seen the press about other schools.
• No, we have not been in the press. The numbers of children eating meals in our school has decreased. I believe this is directly related to us serving much healthier food. I think the menus should be altered to individual tastes for each school. Still keeping in line with healthy options, however, adapting the menu to suit what children will and won't eat.
• This has had a huge affect on our school. We have been up for a lot of awards for our healthy food, it has been great for the staff, kids and parents and has promoted the healthy food initiative and has opened everyone's eyes.
• We have had press coverage. Because of the health fair last week the press came in and did an article on our healthy food and took pictures of all the food we have available. This should benefit the school by raising the profile of school dinners.
• No
• This has helped with the profile of the menu. I thought our numbers would drop at lunchtime, but they haven't, they have stayed the same. I believe this is down to an increased awareness of healthy foods, which was helped by the press.
• We have not been in the press, but other schools have and that has helped raise awareness amongst parents in our school as well.
• We have been in the press, it certainly raises awareness for parents and gets them to take more of an interest.
• Prince Charles and Camilla visited a local school and had a lot of press about their health eating push. It has benefited the schools and has raised our profile.

Involvement of catering staff in a Menu Development Group

• There is a catering management group but I'm not part of that.
• I think we should be involved more, as we serve the kids and we know what they will eat and what they won't eat.
• No, I don't think we should do this because they are not fully aware of the scheme that is being run and what is trying to be achieved. Maybe if they went on the courses that I went to they could then have an input in the menu.
• I am already involved in this. We helped establish the current menu and suppliers. This is definitely the way to go, we need the people who are feeding the children to be involved.
• N/A
• We have a catering managers workshop. They have a say rather then all the schools attending.
• I think there was one with the start up of Hungry for Success, but not sure who involved. in
• We don't get much of a say, we should be allowed to have more of an individual say for each school of what should be in our menus.
• Yes this would be good as we serve the children and we know what children like in our particular area and age groups.
• That is important because they are the people that know what the children will and won't eat in each school area.
• I don't think we do this but I think it is a good idea.

Q29. ( HT) Other than the activities I've just mentioned, what efforts have been made to integrate the issues of healthy diet, and improved school meals into the curriculum? What kinds of staff ( i.e. which roles) have been most involved in this?

• We promote healthy eating in our classes, but it is not just the children that need to be targeted. We need to encourage parents through tasting sessions, improve the range of healthy food in the local shops. We don't have a supermarket close by.
• Not applicable
• We have introduced a healthy tuck shop. The one problem we did have was with fruit - we could not store it. We do not do sweets at all. We don't just isolate healthy eating we have a health week and incorporate fitness, a healthy mind and general well being. We also include social welfare, the school nurse etc.
• We have our own health education curriculum and healthy eating is a big part of that. The children take part in cookery lessons and learn how easy it is to cook healthy food as well as learning the value behind eating healthily. The younger primary years are given fruit 3 times per week. We make sure that drinking water is available to children at all times, plus our tuck shop is now serving more healthy snacks. I do not think that the schemes had an impact on us to begin with. I think it was the other way around. I believe that from the health education we were doing in schools highlighted the fact that we were telling the kids you must eat healthily and then offering burgers, pizza and chips for lunch. This was also highlighted through dental problems some children experienced and increasing obesity.

Q30. ( HT, CM) Of all of the activities and initiatives that we've just discussed, which seem to have had the greatest impact? Why?

• The tasting session was very successful. The kids enjoyed that and tried different foods.
• Getting the kids to sample the different foods, especially the younger ones.
• I am hoping that this evening we are having on 1st December will have the greatest impact. All three schemes have influenced us to improve our menu and think more healthily. However, Hungry for Success has definitely had the greatest influence.
• The press coverage has had the biggest impact for us. But that is just our school because Prince Charles visited us, we have had TV crews in making a programme on local suppliers, it really has lifted the profile of the school and our healthy menu to the kids and parents and local community. We have been in the paper almost every week. The teaching of healthy eating in class and the tasting sessions have also played a major role in increasing the healthy food profile.
• Education on food has had the greatest impact. Improving the children's knowledge. I believe the parents need to be educated, its pointless us re-educating the children if they are just going to go home and have nuggets and chips. I think the TV has helped influence the change to health food, like Jamie Oliver's programme. "You are what you eat" all help to re-educate the parents.
• The one that would involve parents to taste new dishes that would be half the battle. Parents get the information from the children. All parents had a copy of new menu, but it would be great to follow this up with a taster session - information, if parents come and try and bring children with them, it may help.
• The involvement of parents. If we can encourage the parents, then they will encourage the kids which will make our jobs a lot easier at school.
• The options that would have the most impact would be the tasting day and the cookery day for parents. If we can encourage the parents and get them on side they will be able to influence their children.
• The local press and the Saturday cookery programme have both impacted on the parents. Both of these initiatives influence parents, which in turn influences the pupil.
• We have not had this day yet, but I believe that our "Health Awareness Day" that we are having in February will be a success. Parents and children will be able to come in a taste the food that's available in the canteen. They will see how the food is prepared and be able to take part in cookery lessons.

Q31. ( HT, CM) What more do you think needs to be done to increase the uptake of school meals, and especially the uptake of healthy meal choices available on the menu?

• Try to make parents more aware of healthier eating so when the kids go home healthy eating is reinforced by parents as well as the school. Kids should be eating less processed foods.
• Asking the kids what they would like to eat. I think kids should start cooking when they are young so they develop an appreciation for different foods.
• Schools should be allowed to develop their own menus with healthy guidelines from the council. This would have an impact on the uptake of school dinners.
• We have to continue with the tasting sessions, but also it is important to re-educate the parents and get parents on our side. The bottom line is that it is them that send their children for school meals. Free school meals for everyone would solve this problem, however, this would create other problems. It is important to show parents what their children are eating and encouraging them to send their kids trusting us that their kid will be fed healthily.
• Name of meals on the menu made for children friendly - example is Chilli con Carne. Rather than calling it Chilli con Carne call it something else or describe it better
• Re-education of parents in terms of a packed lunch. If we could ban sweets and chocolate from packed lunches this would also make a big difference.
• Need to reach parents and children themselves, keep plugging away at children. Trying to get children oily fish. Every day have a wee bowl with plastic spoons for children to try and quite often they will try it.
• More flexibility in the menus not on ingredients that means tailor menu to children's tastes using the same ingredients
• Educating parents in healthy eating at home.
• Continuous encouragement at class level. We also need to be educating on healthy packed lunches. This area needs to be improved and parents re-educated. We need to re-educate them in a non-threatening way so maybe the tasting and cookery sessions are the way forward.
• Dinners need to be free. It is quite costly, and if you have three children having school dinners everyday it adds up very quickly. This is where parents feel the benefit of packed lunches because of the money they save. I'm not saying we would get a 100% take up, but I don't think there is any better investment then feeding the next generation.

Q32. ( HT, CM) Finally, do you have any other comments to make on the local foods for schools pilot scheme, and its efforts to improve to improve the quality of food served in East Ayrshire schools?

E.g. has the timing of school meals affected uptake of the scheme? Are swipe cards being used etc.?

• We are aware of the schemes and what they are trying to achieve.
• The menus are great, the food is beautiful but the kids don't like a lot of the food that is on the menu. It would be better if we had the freedom to adapt it.
• I think the scheme is fantastic for the kids, for the local community and long may it continue. We run a breakfast club and this has been very successful and is running very well.
• Very good initiative need to improve awareness with teachers and parents
• Just that I wish we could deal with all local suppliers and that we had more flexibility with the menu.
• Personally I think it is a good idea. It has improved the quality, food and meal that are being provided. Teaching staff can see the difference. Maybe not the children automatically until they try. A good initiative. I hope they keep it going and do not back track.
• Excellent initiative
• I think the scheme is excellent and has definitely improved school dinners.
• The only foods I have noticed that the children turn their noses up at is the oily fish. The scheme that has the most impact is the "Hungry for Success" scheme. The reason for that is that it has given health food in schools the most profile. That is the scheme that has been in your face more. Overall, I am very impressed by the scheme and how the children are more informed about what they are eating.
• I am very familiar with the schemes that are being run like the 'Food for Life', 'Hungry for Success' and the 'local foods for schools pilot'. I think they have all been running very well and are opening the doors for children with various activities such as the breakfast club. The breakfast club is funded by the learning partnership and is operating on a trial basis at present. Breakfasts for children are free, I think school dinners should be free as well. The thing that worries me is that the price of school dinners goes up every year. Every time this happens, the number of children having school dinners drop for a while.

(iii) - Catering Managers and Head Teachers Survey - POST-AWARD OF NEW CONTRACTS

Q2a. ( HT) Briefly, what have you learned over just the last few months about East Ayrshire Council's pilot scheme to introduce more local and organic foods into school meals?

• We have a standard circular come round from hungry for success informing us of what is happening in other schools etc.
• I don't think I know much more then I did from the last interview we did. The only extra thing that I have heard is that my cook tells me that we have won an award of some description.
• It has been quite a successful campaign. Our meals are now mostly organic and to my knowledge a lot of the produce is from local suppliers. I'm very happy with that.

Q2b. ( HT) How important to you and your school are environmental and sustainability issues that the pilot scheme might help address, for example through reducing the amount of miles that the food travels?

• We are far out in the country so for Stair Organics and local suppliers it is good for them to deliver for us. So in terms of the local community we feel it is very important.
• That is very important. Less damage to the ozone layer , we encourage that.
• We are quite a deprived area so if we can put anything back into the local area and local community then it helps the local businesses, local people, the children and us. It is environmentally better and more healthy for children.

Q7. ( CM) How do "healthy choice" items on the menu compare with other items in terms of uptake by the children?

• A good percentage of the children are taking more sandwiches, they are bringing more packed lunches from home now. That has developed since about Christmas time. I think its because the kids are fed up of having to eat vegetables.
• Some of the bigger children will opt for the healthier choices on the menu. E.g., vegetable stew always goes, but the Tuna pasta bake and salmon never sell well. If I serve fish with a source it never sells. Soup always sells well. I also do salad bowls, rather then just dishing up salad, we do bowls with cheese or cold meats, eggs etc. I make up about a dozen each day. Baked potatoes sell well as well. All the food is healthy enough but a lot of kids don't want to eat what we have on the menu. All they want is beef stew, meat with roast potatoes, steak pies etc. The Carbonarra beef I have to pass off as Stew just so the kids will be tricked into eating it.
• I would say we have very few items that are not healthy choices. I would say uptake is very good apart from fish. Fried or coated fish is pretty good but fish in a sauce does not go down well. The ratio of uptake is approx. 50% school dinners and 50% packed lunches.
• I would say most of the food we sell now is healthy. There is only things like cakes that are unhealthy. The uptake is quite level, the numbers have come back so we are pretty much the same as before we introduced the scheme. I would say 1/3 have hot school dinners and 2/3 take a packed lunch from home.
• Probably about 50-50, up take has slightly increased since we went over to healthier foods.
• The kids are coming round. There were a lot of things on this menu that I thought kids would never go for but they have started trying them. Just by having tasters, but the next time you put that food on, you notice a bit more of it goes then the last time. However the fish never goes unless it's coated. If it's in a sauce it doesn't go at all. But all meat and chicken dishes go. The butcher is excellent. I think what we would like to do is have a balance between the two menus the old and new but still maintaining healthy food. I would say the ratios of kids that have dinners to kids that have sandwiches is just over half. I think the kids we need to work on now are the ones that just have sandwiches or toasties from us. We need to encourage them to have more hot dinners with vegetables.
• Most of the food on the menu is a healthy choice. The uptake at the moment is quite good. I would say about 80% have school dinners and 20% bring packed lunches.

Q9a. ( HT, CM) East Ayrshire Council awarded a number of new contracts to local food suppliers at the end of 2005. How do you feel the local food introduced since then compares with the previous food on offer in terms of both quality and taste?

• The butcher meat is a lot better. The organic potatoes sometimes aren't that nice, but on the whole, the veg is pretty good. The complaints about the potatoes is that they are coming in black, we don't like the look of them.
• We deal with a company called Stair Organics. I appreciate the fact that it is winter time and not a lot of organic food can be grown at this time of year. But I have not been impressed with the quality of the produce that has been delivered to us at all. I think some of it has been horrendous, plus it costs a fortune. E.g. We had apples in one time and the apples were tiny, plus they rotted within 2 days. Bananas are coming in and they are black and tasteless. I have not been impressed. Cabbages are coming in the size of potatoes, i must admit over the winter months i have been buying more from Carruthers (Non organic) due to the food being better and lasting longer.
• The suppliers are very much the same. The fish supplier is even better and slightly cheaper.
• I couldn't comment on that I have only been head for a year. But I used to work at Hurlford and when introduced organic food there you could taste and tell that there was a massive difference.
• I would say the quality has stayed the same. We have the same suppliers as before. The standard and quality is very good, it has remained the same.
• Very good, the food we produce now tastes excellent. The ingredients both quality and taste are excellent.
• There is a lot of difference. In the beginning I wasn't that sure with the veg but now it is very good. Now all I buy is fresh organic fruit and veg. The taste is so much better.
• The quality and taste of food is a lot better. The food is a lot fresher and a lot more tastier.
• Everything to what we had previous is superior especially the meat.
• I have no negative comparisons at all. I have not noticed any deterioration in the food quality, I know it is a bit more expensive for some items, but overall it is very good. The taste is great, if not better.

Q11a. ( CM only) Have you had to use a supplier complaints procedure to deal with any problems with any of the new local food supplied since the end of 2005? [IF SO, PLEASE ASK FOR DETAILS OF THE PROBLEM AND HOW IT WAS DEALT WITH]

• No (ALL RESPONDENTS GAVE THIS ANSWER)

Q11b. ( CM only) For these and any other problems with suppliers from the new local food suppliers, would you say that you have taken more or less time to resolve these than you have with typical problems with other suppliers?

Is this down to the nature of the problem, or to the nature of the supplier?

• If I have any minor problems I just phone them up and they solve it really quickly, they are very good.
• Not really had any problems. I complained about the meat one week, as it went off within a few days. The company said they had a problem that week with the vacuum sealer. They replaced the meat I had to throw away. I was happy with how the problem was resolved. His meat is first class.
• We have had a few minor problems. I would say we take less time to resolve issues. The reason why it is resolved quicker I think is down to the fact that you see the supplier face to face when they deliver. They know who you are and sort things out quicker for you to keep you happy. It is better then dealing with Tele sales people.
• No, the new suppliers are excellent. It's a very friendly service and they will go out of their way. This is a lot better service then previous national suppliers.
• With ,minor problems I think we are taking less time to resolve problems. For instance the meat producers vacuum sealer broke down the other day, we got meat in and it smelt off. The supplier replaced it the following day, the service is excellent.
• No, everything has been fine with the suppliers. No problems at all.
• I would say less time. This is more due to the nature of the supplier. You just have to call them and you get straight through to the person that is supplying you. You don't have to go through about 5 people.

Q11c. ( CM only) How well has the ordering and invoice process gone with new local suppliers since the end of 2005? Do they seem more or less efficient than previous suppliers? (IF SO, How?) Do they seem more or less flexible than previous suppliers? (IF SO, How?)

• Yes its all been straight forward. Well I would say the butcher especially gives you a personal touch, they will all go out of their way.
• Very good. The only problem has been with the veg going off by the end of the week. All suppliers are as flexible and on time as before. I'm happy.
• No problems as far as I know. They are very efficient if not more so then before. They are very flexible.
• No problems at all. It wasn't a problem before either.
• Very good, I have no problems with ordering, when I order something we always get it the following day. The suppliers are definitely better then say 12 months ago, they are more flexible and more efficient.
• Everything has gone fine, there is slightly more paper work but nothing that makes our lives any more difficult. I think they have been really good. I think East Ayrshire can be very slow at paying their bills, and the suppliers never chase us for money. They all seem to be quite happy. The efficiency seems to be just the same.
• I would say it is just the same. I think previous suppliers have been just the same.

Q11d. ( CM only) How do you feel about the hygiene standards of the new local suppliers, whether in their products, staff, vehicles or any other way? Do they seem to keep to better or poorer standards than previous suppliers? (IF SO, How?

• Everything is clean enough. I would say the standard is as good as before. However, the organic veg lady mixes all our veg and fruit together I don't like that, because we have to separate them. That is with Stair Organics.
• Hygiene is good, pretty much the same.
• Hygiene is very good. Because they are new contracts it has been stipulated that they must keep to hygiene regulations and they have certain checks that they need to do, e.g. temperature checks. So this has been very good.
• Fine as well, they are very smart. I would say the standard of their food is superior. The butcher meat is excellent, the organic veg does not last as long but you expect that.
• Very good. We don't see all suppliers but the ones we do see are very good.
• Hygiene and everything is fine. They are very thorough when it comes to temperature of meats etc. They are very good, I would say they are better in terms of hygiene, especially the butcher with the vacuum packed meat. The packing is excellent.
• I would say it is a high standard. I would say the trays they deliver on are much more hygienic

Q11e. ( CM only) How do you feel about the range of products that you can obtain from the new local suppliers? Does your choice seem to be any more or less restricted than that from previous suppliers? How has this affected your work?

• We have got a good choice. I think it is less restricted then before. We can now order things that we couldn't before.
• Pretty much the same as before, no real difference, I can generally get what I want however it may cost more. This is mainly due to the requirement of organic veg. Although I'm buying from local companies at this time of year the veg is being imported from Argentina. What's the point in that, we end up paying the extra cost.
• We can get everything that we want but we find that when buying the organic veg it has become very expensive, especially at this time of year. So we find we buy what we can, e.g. the veg that is in season so we don't always go by the menu, we adapt it to what we can get hold of. So that is a problem, but there is no way round that, it can restrict you but it depends which way you look at it. You can always get the veg but you will pay a price. You have to import it from abroad which defeats the purpose of buying locally. We would rather buy non organic food locally then buy from abroad.
• The vegetables that are seasonal are a problem, but you just have to alter your menu to adapt to the seasonal veg. The range of food is excellent, but the range of choice is less with vegetables due to having to use organic. The way I get round this is to buy organic when i can then buy standard fruit and veg when the organic is out of season.
• Very good. The only problem I have is with ordering seasonal food. If it is out of season we can still get it but it costs a fortune and is usually tasteless, it doesn't taste as nice as when it is in season. I would say we have about the same level of choice as before if not more. The thing is it does take us longer to prepare food because of having to wash everything. Everything comes in dirty so it takes a while to wash everything.
• I would say apart from the organic seasonal food, the choice is about the same.
• I would say the fruit and veg are restrictive. It is because the produce is seasonal. A lot of the food is organic and you just can't get hold of it. It doesn't affect your work a great deal, you just compensate for it by buying in products that aren't organic. It doesn't take longer to prepare food, but if you have to wait for a response from the organic supplier of what veg they don't have that week you have to source it from the other supplier. That wastes time.

Q11f. ( CM only) How do you feel about the possible seasonal problems that you may face in getting food from the new local suppliers? Would these be any better or worse than those from previous suppliers?

• Over the winter period its very difficult, and it can be very expensive. I think this is the same as before.
• We are having problems. Getting some fruit and veg during the winter months from Ayrshire producers is pretty near impossible, so they are importing veg from abroad, I don't see the point myself, it is far too expensive.
• See above. Overall we prefer to buy organic veg that is in season and when it is not instead buy local non organic produce.
• Because I work between the two suppliers, I don't really find sourcing veg a problem. The problem would arise if I was only allowed to order organic veg. I think this situation is better at the moment any way.
• The seasonal problem is not too bad, as I say we can get hold of things its just that we have to pay the earth for it. What I would prefer to do is buy seasonal organic produce when it is in season, instead of importing when it is out of season. Therefore developing more seasonal related menus.
• I don't think the seasonal problem has been too bad. If there is something we haven't been able to put on we have put on fresh vegetables that we have been able to get. We just go with it usually. I think what needs to happen is that the menu should be adapted to suit the seasonal adaptations.
• I can't see it being a great problem but it is still an issue. I would say the problem would be just the same.

Q12 (a)( CM only) How many deliveries do you now take each day or each week? How well are suppliers able to meet your needs in terms of … the time of drops? …frequency of drops? …quantities delivered in drops? Could suppliers make better use of the times available for drops?

• Eggs are once per fortnight, most are once per week. The veg lady comes in on a Tuesday, that's fine for the moment but when the summer comes we may need 2 deliveries per week as the food won't be lasting as long. The old veg company used to deliver twice per week, but we now only get deliveries once per week.
• I get a delivery once per week from nearly all suppliers in total about 10 deliveries a week. I'm happy with deliveries, I feel I am more comfortable now I know when deliveries are coming. It allows me to be more organised. I'm happy with both the national companies deliveries and the local companies.
• We have bread delivered daily, milk, groceries, meat, veg, fish weekly. Eggs we get fortnightly. We are happy with delivery times and frequency. We have got used to the deliveries. It's not a problem now because we understand the shelf life of the products. Quantities are good as well. We have noticed a difference between local and national suppliers. Local suppliers deliver when we want them too, we have to fit in with national suppliers delivery schedules. I think this has changed for the better.
• We take deliveries about once per week for everything. We are happy with everything about the jobs. The local suppliers are very flexible and will fit in with the kitchens. This is better then the national companies, with these companies you have to fit in with their delivery times. It's a lot better this way round. Overall it's a lot better.
• We receive about 12 deliveries per week. Deliveries from local producers are excellent, I phone up with an order and they deliver when they say they will with whatever quantities I want. They are very good. My only problem is with Green City the national producer. They will only do deliveries for orders over £100. We use them for dried fruit and lentils. Therefore, when we run out of certain items or we want extra we have to wait 3-4 weeks until we have a larger order worth over £100. We find this a bit of an inconvenience and if possible we would prefer to source this from a local supplier, they are much more flexible with delivery quantities.
• We get weekly deliveries from most of our suppliers. I'm really happy with the deliveries. One example is with the baker, I got one of the orders wrong the one day and I phoned him and asked if it would be possible to deliver the next day first thing. He had delivered the goods next day even before we got in. I was very impressed. I am very happy with the quantities i have been having in. I would say the service we get here now from the local suppliers is much better then the service from the national suppliers as we can get deliveries next day. You can't do that with national suppliers.
• We get roughly a delivery once per week from each supplier. I'm happy with the times that companies deliver but I would like to see deliveries twice a week from the organic veg people. A week is too long for organic veg, it goes off. The other food is fine once per week. The quantities are fine, you get basically what you ask for. Deliveries are pretty much the same between national companies and local companies.

Q12. (c) ( CM only) Are you happy with the quality of the ingredients you've received from new local suppliers since the end of 2005?

• I think we have had a slight problem with carrots, but apart from that everything has been ok. The carrots have been coming in and they have been too small.
• I'm very happy with the quality of the ingredients especially the meats and the milk. Stair Organics have been the only supplier that I have been disappointed with, but that is probably down to the time of year. I will be interested to see if this produce gets any better in the summer.
• Yes
• I'm very happy with the quality of ingredients I receive from the new suppliers
• I am very happy with the quality of ingredients we receive.
• Yes very happy.
• Yes, I'm happy

Q12. (d) ( CM) Are you happy with the packaging of the ingredients you've received from new local suppliers since the end of 2005? How do they compare with other suppliers?(PROBE TO CHECK OPINIONS IN TERMS OF BOTH SIZE AND WEIGHT OF PACKAGING)?

• Yes the packaging has been fine. The packaging is pretty much the same as from previous suppliers.
• I am happy with packaging, some of the local suppliers collect their packaging and use it again. I think that's a good thing.
• Yes, packaging is great. The packaging is much the same if not better then national suppliers. They will pack goods how we want them packed. If we want the meat cut smaller they will do it for us. They are quite happy to fit in with us.
• I'm very happy with the packaging from suppliers. The bakers bread is better then the one we had before and so is the meat. The packaging is the same as before. The organic veg is not packaged so there is no waste which is good.
• Yes packaging is very good from both National and local suppliers. Again the only problem is with Green City, because we order in large quantities we receive our produce on large crates that we find difficult to handle. We would prefer smaller quantities.
• Yes I'm happy
• Packaging is good. We are not getting big boxes with only a few cans in, packaging is very good.

Q12. (e) ( CM) Could the new local suppliers do any more to reduce any packaging waste? [IF SO, WHAT?]

• The local suppliers take their packaging away, I don't think they need to do any more.
• No, they are really good.
• No, there is not a lot of waste. The veg comes straight out the field. Meat comes vacuumed packed for freshness. Most products arrive in trays and they take the trays away so they don't use or waste boxes. So its all pretty good.
• Everything is good
• No, they are very good.
• I don't think the local suppliers waste as much as national suppliers do with packaging. I think the packaging from local suppliers is fine
• No its good

Q13 ( CM) Has the level of service (such as quality of product, consistency of specification, delivery on time etc) got better or worse since the introduction of new local suppliers at the end of 2005?

• I would say the timing is great for us. Delivery timing has improved. The personal service from the butcher and baker etc is excellent. That's really important.
• The quality is much the same, its all about being organised and organising yourself around deliveries.
• I would say better.
• I would say better.
• I would have said it has got better, as I said before, I am very impressed.
• I would say better.
• I would say its got better

Q14. ( CM) As a catering manager, what is your biggest concern at the moment (staff levels, ingredients, training etc)?

• We have a problem at the moment with one member of staff going off on long term sick. That is going to put us under a lot of pressure. The other worry I have got is with the amount of sandwiches I'm making up. Not many kids are opting for hot dinners anymore, they seem to be opting for the sandwiches. What i would like to do is re-introduce the children's favourites like spaghetti bolognaise. That always goes down well, and you just make it from fresh ingredients so it is healthy. With the staffing problem, because we now have more work to do the staff are under a lot more pressure, morale is low, we are struggling on, we are all working harder.
• The biggest problem is the menu. If the menu could be relaxed a bit more so we can produce our own food that is still healthy but so we can produce food that we know the kids will eat. I know kids go home from here and they have only had a sandwich for lunch and they will snack when they get home. If we could offer them a meal that they know/like that is still healthy then that has got to be better for them. Why pay all this money for this more exotic recipes when you know the kids just are not eating it. I think sometimes they are just trying to please the teachers with some of these menus.
• Getting the kids to eat the healthy food. We are still having the problem because when the children go home on a night they are not getting healthy food cooked from raw materials for them. They find this is different for them at school. Vegetables and fruit are a different thing altogether. A lot of parents just give their kids microwave dinners. So we need to re-educate the parents as well as the kids.
• I think the organic veg is great, but the cost is a problem, for it to go to every school will cost too much.
• I don't have a big concern at the moment. But I would say, what I do think about the most is encouraging more children to have school meals. It is something we need to keep pushing and encouraging kids to eat healthier,
• I would say the price of things. That's one of my concerns, unless they can get a menu where by you are not getting as much waste then its not worth their while. I'm mean today we had salmon, no one ate it so we had to throw it away, what a waste. You need to have a balance so you don't produce as much waste.
• I would say time is one, it does take more time to prepare food. I would also say that staffing is a big issue. I do struggle with time. Ideally I would like more staff training and 1 more staff member. Also the cost of the food is a concern.

Q17. ( CM only ) Are changes to any of your storage facilities planned in the near future? IF SO, ASK: What kind of changes? What has brought these changes about? Has the introduction of new local suppliers had any impact on this?

• Yes, we are changing the kitchen counter but not the storage facilities. The only reason why this has happened is because the kitchens need updating. The new suppliers have not had an impact on this decision.
• No
• No
• Our kitchen is getting knocked down at the end of the month. The introduction of new suppliers has had no impact on this decision. The whole school is being renovated and we need new kitchens and dining hall.
• No
• I'm supposed to be getting a new kitchen. The only reason is because the kitchen is really old and it needs up dating, it has nothing to do with the new suppliers.
• I don't know about plans to change the kitchens but I have had to ask for extra containers to store food as we are quite limited on our storage space. The reason why we decided to do this was because we had run out of space. It is due to using more local suppliers and having to separate and store more organic veg plus we have to store the non organic veg as well, we haven't got the space and we have had to store in containers.

Q21. ( HT, CM) How has the introduction of more local and healthy food into the menu since the end of 2005 directly affected your preparation and cooking of food? In what ways have you been limited by staff numbers and skills? Realistically, what could you do to deal with this?

• I think my preparation is the same, we just have a bigger work load now. Apart from the one lady off sick we don't have any other problems. Staff skill levels are good. I think I will contact my area manager to see if we can get someone in even if just for an hour to help us with the cooking.
• It hasn't affected us a great deal. I think maybe the fact the organic food is so small we are finding we are having to peal like 100 carrots to get the equivalent of 10 carrots. It's not great, so in that way it has had an affect on the way we work. But this is nothing we are not capable of. We are not restricted by staff numbers or skills.
• It's just the same because we were doing this before 2005. We have not felt limited in terms of staff numbers.
• Can't answer that. We don't have a kitchen here we import completed meals from another school kitchen.
• It is more work but it is better. Before we used a lot more processed foods and the job was quite boring. It is defiantly more interesting now and its good to see the children actually taking a good meal. We are ok for staff here, we don't have any problems with staff numbers.
• It does take longer to prepare food. But that is mostly washing and pealing, the preparation time has definitely increased. I think an extra person in the kitchen would definitely make our lives easier and not so rushed, but at present we are coping.
• It is taking longer to prepare food because we are having to cook from fresh, however it looks a lot better. I was limited with staff numbers in the beginning but I got an extra girl in for 2 hours every morning and that has seemingly solved the problem.
• Not a great deal, we have always tended to cook from fresh. We have been limited in terms of cooking skills and staff numbers though. To deal with this situation we would ideally need more staff training in preparation and training.
• Certainly increased cooking time because we are now taking longer to prepare. I have not heard anything as of yet with regards to staff shortages.
• I can't answer that. You would have to talk to the catering manager. I have not had any complaints about staff numbers or staff skills.

Q23a. ( HT, CM) How importance do you think it is to build connections between Ayrshire-based suppliers and schools, especially with the catering staff who will have the best understanding of the needs of the school?

• I think this is very important.
• I think it is particularly important. They are always friendly and helpful.
• I think it is quite important because some of the staff know some of the suppliers that deliver into us so relationships are easy to build. I think that is a good thing. I think it is important for the local economy.
• This would be better answered by the catering staff but we would be keen to build links between any local business and the school and obviously it is important to us to get local suppliers in to do presentations to the children so connections can be made with their products.
• I feel the local suppliers are very helpful, they will do anything they can to help us. I think the relationships are good, when the butcher comes in he tells me what are the best buys that week etc. It's all very friendly.
• Very important. A lot of the suppliers have recently come to us to ask if they can do presentations in assembly of their products and try to encourage the kids to get more involved with the produce and see where it comes from. I think its an excellent idea, and will hopefully encourage kids to try more healthier foods. One fruit and veg company provided us with fruit for a parents evening, so to promote the fruit to the parents and encourage their kids to try the fruit when their at school.
• I think it is a very good thing
• Yes I think this is important.
• Extremely important, we encourage one to one relationships with our suppliers at all levels. Our supplies have done nice things like donate fruit to parents evening to promote themselves as a company and also promote fruit and veg that the children are eating at school.
• This is very important. Not only for dietary reasons but it is also important for the children's impression of the local community

IF IMPORTANT, ASK: Q23b. How can connections like this best be developed?

• Spend a bit of time with them, and chat too them when they come in. It helps with the relationship.
• Just continue chatting to them when they come.
• If you keep an eye on what's happening and trying to get more local companies involved in supplying food that maybe you're not already getting locally.
• We invite people in/local businesses to do assemblies for kids plus we would like to do class visits to our suppliers so they can visibly see where some of this produce comes from.
• Just by keeping it friendly.
• I think by getting more of the suppliers to do presentations at school and really encourage kids to try their produce.
• I think if you get local people in to talk to the children it helps promote them and promote the healthy food to the kids.
• I think just a visit and chat is all they need to do
• I see a good way is getting suppliers involved in our enterprise projects and involving them on a more educational level.
• Some of the produce e.g. yoghurts etc has the local suppliers name on it. So this and putting up notices an displays for children is going to help with their reading and general education etc. And also help build their relationships with local suppliers.

Q23c. What connections do you already have with suppliers based in Ayrshire? Have these connections improved since the introduction of new local suppliers at the end of 2005? IF SO, How?

• I think years ago we used to have local suppliers. These are new local suppliers but that is good. We can build new relationships with them.
• I know them all quite well now, before I didn't know them at all. I think the relationships with these suppliers are much the same as they were when they won the contracts. The relationships are good, they are friendly and helpful.
• I come from a farming background so I know some of the suppliers family. I know friends that know them. But that is personally, I think that buy knowing them like this definitely improves service, they want to help you because they know you or your friends and family.
• No we don't have this kind of relationship as of yet, but we would like this to develop.
• I don't know them that well, but relationships with suppliers have been good from day one.
• We knew a lot of the suppliers before they won the contract. I would say that our relationships have improved since then. They are all very friendly, service is excellent and some are coming into school to do presentations.
• Yes relationships have improved with suppliers over the last few months.
• I usually see the butcher that delivers the butcher meat. I would have said the relationship has improved greatly across all suppliers.
• We have connections with the butcher and bakers and fruit and veg companies, these relationships have improved since they were given the contracts at the end of 2005.
• We are going to have a health event next term so that will probably be done then.

Q24. ( HT) How supportive would you say your school is of East Ayrshire Council's pilot scheme to get more local and organic food into schools?

• We are very supportive. Certainly we encourage the kids to eat more healthily, we have asked the kids what healthy foods they would like us to stock in their tuck shop as we are getting rid of junk foods. I think this has gone down very well as well.
• I would have said that in the kitchen we are very supportive. A number of parents and staff have put forward that we get rid of our tuck shop entirely in order to have healthy snacks provided by our kitchen. The staff are whole heartedly behind the programme, but i think the children would rather have chips everyday.
• Very supportive.

Q24b. ( HT, CM) How does a healthy food initiative, like the local foods in schools pilot scheme that East Ayrshire Council has introduced, benefit the catering staff in the school? For example. have you noticed any change in children's' behaviour or eating habits?

• The kids are eating a lot more veg and fruit. It should make them healthier. On a whole the kids are well behaved so I haven't noticed any changes there.
• Not really, apart from they will come to the food hatch and go 'yuck' I'm not eating that. I think we could make the menu simpler so to get more kids to uptake on the menu.
• I would say that we have been local and organic for 2 years now. The people at the school that eat hot healthy meals has increased dramatically. In total approx. 50% of people at the school eat from the canteen would say that the ratio of people that used to have a snack or burger roll that now have hot healthy dinners has increased to 70% eating healthy meals, 30% having sandwiches, which has changed from 70% of people eating snacks, burger rolls and chips etc.
• It's difficult for me to say as I have only been here for 12 months. We have difficulty trying to get kids to try new types of food. We are trying to encourage them but sometimes that can be quite difficult. Some times we try and encourage people that are having sandwiches/packed lunch to try the food so to hopefully encourage them to have a school dinner. It is difficult to see any behavioural differences at this stage.
• I don't think the children realised before how unhealthy the food was. But I think they realise now, which is good. I have seen that change, the children are eating more healthy food. Before when children used to come in it was always pizza, burger, hot dog. Now its more interesting you can see children taking a healthy meal and really enjoying it.
• I wouldn't have said we have seen a change in children's behaviour, they are definitely eating more healthier, which can only be good for them and their health.
• I have noticed that we have got rid of the junk food and kids are choosing the healthier options. Kids are opting for flavoured waters rather then sugary drinks. I can't say I have seen a change in their behaviour or anything.
• I would say there is definitely an improvement in their eating habits but I don't know about their behaviour, maybe slight. Well I think that the job has been made more interesting and there is now a lot more variety in the job.
• I don't think there has been massive changes in eating habits. The kids are eating healthier now, but I wouldn't say they are eating any more or any less food. The staff are getting a Healthy diet as well.
• I don't know, the catering manager would be better to answer that.

Q25. ( HT) What are the benefits to other staff in the school?

• We are promoting healthy eating and I hope that it would improve behaviour and motivation of the kids.
• It's going to have a great spin off for the kids if they can get into healthy eating when they are 8 years old. These will be the ones that take great pride in eating their five fruit and veg per day and they are usually the ones that are more respectful to you any way.
• We also have a breakfast club set up. I would have said that has a bigger impact on the children's concentration then what they have for lunch. I have not noticed any change in their behaviour. When we stopped serving fizzy drinks we noticed that kids calmed down a lot then. The staff are having the choice of eating more healthy as well.

Q25a. ( HT, CM) What other benefits might the scheme have, for example in terms of children's' health?

• Just good health.
• I think it does benefit the kids health a lot. When I was at school every lunchtime we used to go down the chip shop, I think these meals have got to benefit them.
• I would say that kids are eating a lot more fruit and veg so that is good, It must have a good impact on their health, however, we haven't noticed anything with changes in concentration, maybe the teachers have, but we haven't. We don't sell chocolate or fizzy drinks so that must have a good effect on the kids.
• We are encouraging them to develop healthy habits, so we hope the long term benefit of that will be good. But it takes a long time to change these habits. This is only one part of their life so its up to their parents as well, they need to make this kind of food available for them at home as well.
• Just buy eating more healthily will help. A lot of the kids go home now and say to their parents that they want healthy food. That is going to have a massive effect on their family and the food they eat as well. A lot of parents are now buying fruit and veg. Some of the children before have never tasted some vegetables and never even knew their names. I feel like we are helping re-educate them and supporting their classroom knowledge.
• We are no longer allowed to sell cakes with chocolate coatings or any other kind of sugary or chocolate coating due to the school trying to reduce dental problems with kids. So far this is seeming to have worked, kids dental problems have begun to reduce, plus it is healthier for the children as well.
• I think it's a good thing. But then I think that a lot more children should have school dinners because you don't know what their eating habits are like at home. Some kids don't have enough veg and I want to give them more because I'm worried that they are not eating the right food at home.
• It's totally done away with additives and colourings, which has an affect on their health and behaviour so that is always a good thing.
• It should contribute to a better standard of children's health, but kids are only in school for one meal in the day and some parents have no idea what children should and shouldn't be eating, you can see that in some of their packed lunches. In the long run you would hope that it can help develop their eating habits outside of school and overall reduce obesity. It really comes down to what they have been brought up on, if they have had vegs fruit and salad from an early age they would be more inclined to eat them now. But having said that, my grandson was brought up on organic veg he now hates the stuff and won't touch it, he is only 3 or 4. There must be fazes that children go through but as long as they get a balanced diet, than that's ok. So there is no point forcing them.

Q26. ( HT, CM) How important do you think it is that local suppliers, by play a larger role in supplying food to local schools?

• You know where your food is coming from, it's not travelling too far so you are hopefully getting it fresher. Yes its important.
• I think this is very important. They have to supply good produce
• I think it is very important for the local community.
• I think it is very important for supporting the local economy and supporting our local businesses.
• I think it is a very good idea. It's important for the local businesses and keeping them going.
• Very important, it is good for local producers and also good for the local economy.
• I think it is quite important. The food is much better quality and fresh.
• I think it is important, you are buying local produce and creating local jobs. Your not buying food that has travelled half the country before it reaches you, which is a good thing.
• For the local economy it is important indeed.
• It is very important.

Q27. ( HT, CM) How important do you think it is that organic suppliers play a larger role in supplying food to local schools?

• I'm not sure about that, I'm not sure what harm the chemicals do that are in non organic fruit and veg. Sometimes you wonder if its worth paying the extra for the organic veg.
• I think this is important as well but only to a certain extent. I think because it is seasonal we should supply it in seasons and not import just because its on the menu, it just costs too much money.
• I don't think this is as important as supplying local. If I could buy organic produce at the same price as local produce then I would buy organic, but I would rather buy local produce if organic is out of season.
• We encourage that, the more organic food that is used we support that as well.
• If the price came down it would be great. Because the price is so high it is difficult to justify. To me it would be great to see everything organic but it is more important to make sure kids are just eating vegetables.
• I would say not quite so important, it is good to have organic food when it is in season, but when it isn't in season I don't see it as necessity.
• I don't know about organic food, because it doesn't look as nice as the non organic. Some kids won't eat the non organic because it doesn't look as nice.
• I don't know if it is that important. I don't know if there is such a big benefit in relation to the high prices. Overall I'm unsure about that one.
• I think this is quite important but it is not something that every family can do, so it is good that kids have the option to try this type of food in school. So this is not as important as it is to buy local food.
• Well, it is important, but I understand the cost implications. The cost of organic potatoes is 3or4 times more then non organic so health benefits are there but we would need more children to eat school dinners for it to become cost effective. Sustainability cost wise could be a problem.

Q27a. ( HT, CM) To what extent do you think that the extra cost of including more food from local suppliers in the school meals menu is justified? To what extent do you think that the extra cost of including more food from organic suppliers in the school meals menu is justified? [IN EACH CASE, ASK, Why do you say that?]

• The butcher meat is nice so it's worth the extra. I think its good in a way, its better then non-organic from local suppliers but I don't see why it has to be so expensive.
• I don't think it can be justified. I bought Salmon in last week, we can not justify the cost of fresh salmon at the price of a meal ticket. I think the cost of organic food is not justified either, it is so expensive, and it is not that good. I'm happy with the meat, but not with the fruit and veg. I have not been happy with this at all.
• I think local produce is justified. I don't think it is a lot more money, its far better then buying produce that has been traipsed all over the countryside, it is more important to put money back into the local community. I think that is the justification. In terms of organic costs i think this is a much harder question. I wonder whether this is feasible, there is a cost of about an extra 1/3 which does add up. Sometimes this can't be justified. We buy organic apples in for 50p you expect a child to pay 50p for an apple, so we are loosing all the time. It's not feasible sometimes.
• I am aware of the cost implications, but I'm not aware in the ratio of organic food to non organic that is being used of what exactly the cost implications are, so I can't really comment on that at this stage.
• I think it has been a great idea. But it is working out more expensive. I think the cost of local food is justified. But I think the cost of organic would be justified but only if the cost could be brought down.
• I think the extra cost for using local produce is justified. For one it is helping the local community and another it is helping the future generations health. It is getting them to eat more healthy from an early age, which can only be good for them. I don't think the use of organic food is so justified due to the extra cost being so large.
• I think it is justified if you are buying it in and it is being used. If you are slinging half of it away as we are I don't think it is justified. What I tend to do is get more of the food they like and cut back on the food they don't like e.g. the salmon. I had a meeting with East Ayrshire Council last week and they said not to be silly, don't buy a bag of organic potatoes and throw half of them away. Get a bag of local potatoes and juggle it. At the beginning i thought there was a big difference in price between organic and non organic, and now i don't think there is a big difference. I have been cutting back on stuff that I'm not using. As long as you can manage it like that and not waste food then i think the extra cost of organic food is justified.
• I think its justified but its not 100%. I feel that organic fruit and veg is too expensive whereas the organic meat is excellent for the extra cost. Buying from local suppliers is justifiable I agree with this. This is a better quality produce then from your national suppliers. For dried organic goods i feel the price is justifiable, there is not a great difference between the price of organic and non organic. But on some of the fruit and veg there is a massive price difference and the quality isn't that good.
• I think using local suppliers is well justified. Its not just supporting the local economy it's the quality of the produce that is coming in compared to what was coming in before. Again not as important but still fairly justified.
• I don't think you can put a price on children's health so all credit to East Ayrshire council for doing this. I would not be the one to comment on the sustainability of it. Again I find it difficult to answer this question in terms of organic produce. I know that organic food is best for children and i know that a lot of children will never have organic food unless it is provided for them at school. So from that point of view, if this is the only organic meal that a child will be getting in a day then that alone may justify it. However i would argue that when we were growing up we never had any organic food.

Q28. ( HT, CM) I'd like to go through a list of activities related to promoting healthy eating that you may either have been involved in already, or that you may be involved in in the future.

Hosting an introduction and tasting session for the Soil Association's 'Food for Life' programme to improve school meals

• We haven't done any thing like that, but we have had supermarkets in, whereby they gave children tasters of the food that they sell. The children enjoyed it, I think it helped encourage the kids to try more fruit and veg. The headmaster sometimes does assemblies from the dinning hall and encourages kids to sample different foods, and gives talks on vegetables and things like that and tell them the benefit.
• We have done this. They did this just before I came to the school. I think it was a success, I can't comment on the benefits I was not here.
• We have done this. From a schools point of view it was very successful. It was well attended by parents, not many events at the school are well attended by parents, so this was excellent.
• We would be very keen on something like that. We would be giving people a chance to try the food, however we would have to weigh up the cost implications of doing something like that.
• Yes we have done this. It was suitable to the school. The children brought their parents in so they could see what meals were available. We were hoping to increase the number of children having school dinners. I think it has worked however, we don't have consistent numbers.
• Yes, we are doing this at a parents evening in the next few weeks. The aim is to encourage parents to encourage their kids to try the food at school by demonstrating to the parents how nice the food is and how healthy it is.
• No, we have not done this however we are planning something but not for a Saturday. Maybe on an evening or something like that.
• No we have not been involved in this, but we do let kids have samples whenever they want.
• Yes, we do this annually but we try and do this more often now, for instance we try and get kids and parents in for a school dinner when they first start school so they can see what is on offer and try the various samples. We distribute menus so parents and kids can sit down and plan out what meals they want, we also use this as a form of advertising the school dinners.
• Yes, we do this with primary one every year. Here parents are in a good position to determine whether this is a good thing for their children. Even those that send their kids off with packed lunches will consider sending their child in for a hot dinner at some point because they know the food is good.

Saturday open days for parents, to promote the Food for Life scheme and the Scottish Executive's Hungry for Success scheme (Check whether this overlapped with the activity above?)

• Usually when primary 1 starts we encourage parents to come in and sample the foods. We wouldn't have this on a Saturday.
• We had a dinner tasting evening but again Mary did that before I came.
• I don't think this would work, parents wouldn't come on a Saturday. We organised the first tasting event on one of the afternoons at 3pm, because the parents were coming in anyway at 3pm to pick their kids up. SO I think that is why it worked so well.
• We could do something like that either on a Saturday or on a parents evening.
• No we haven't had this
• This is the same as above in this case.
• No, we have not done this and nothing is planned.
• No we have not done this, we are not planning on doing this either.
• East Ayrshire runs education and display, a tasting session that's run annually. We get involved in that and encourage parents to go along.
• We will be having the health event which parents will be involved in. Also included will be sports, healthy activities, safety activities, tasting sessions on fruit, and healthy food etc. We will also be offering a healthy food session on the night. We are hopping to achieve increased awareness of a healthy diet and fitness regime.

An awareness session for teaching staff about the same 'Food for Life' programme

• Yes we have had something like that at a teacher training day. But nothing from us to tell them.
• Don't know, the headmaster may have briefed them on this before but I'm not sure. The teachers do have a copy of the menus.
• We have done this and it worked very well. I think It did benefit the teachers. Because we had Prince Charles coming in to visit we had to make sure that the teachers were all up to speed. So we did it anyway.
• That would be useful also in terms of helping teachers educate the kids on healthy eating better. It would give them more information on healthy cooking.
• No we haven't had this
• We have not done this, it may be of benefit to us. It would certainly help staff to understand what we are trying to do, and hopefully encourage children to try different food.
• Yes we have done this. We were planning this one with the area manager.
• No we have not done this, we are not planning on doing this either.
• Not done one of these
• The staff will be involved in the health week. We are trying to encourage staff to take up after school activities like Thai Chi etc. This should help staff with issues like their weight, and health and lifestyles.

An awareness session for catering staff about the same 'Food for Life' programme

• No we have not done this. We haven't been told to do anything like this.
• My staff are very clued up, this isn't really a problem.
• The catering staff were at the event above as well.
• Again this would help and would again give them information on healthy cooking and the benefits of such.
• No we haven't had this
• No we haven't done this. It may help, so my staff know exactly what is happening and to continue encouraging the children to try more healthier foods.
• Yes we are planning this, I think any training will help the development of staff.
• No we have not done this, we are not planning on doing this either.
• I think they had one of those. It makes them aware of what they are trying to achieve as well and makes them think about their working day life a bit more. It makes them more active partners in the whole exercise.
• This wouldn't be up to me this would be up to the catering services manager, this is not within my remit.

A demonstration session for parents on Healthy Cooking Tips

• We have a community one that happens on a night, but the school kitchen staff are not involved in this.
• Yes, we did this at the tasting session. It benefited parents as they could see more of what's going on what we are trying to do and that there is more to life then mince and potatoes
• We have had this as well, we got someone in to demonstrate cooking various dishes. This went very well, this wasn't driven by any scheme. This was our own idea as we want to promote the school dinners we were selling and increase uptake. We found parents were very interested what kids were eating, so the idea was to get the parents interest about local healthy food.
• It would give the parents insight into what they are cooking. We have had in the past a workshop which has encouraged parents to cook more healthily at home.
• Yes this was arranged but we have had to cancel because we are closing the school down for a year to refurb the school.
• No, we have not done this. It would help though, I have spoken to so many parents that don't have a clue about cooking. This would definitely help them.
• We were talking about doing this, but I'm not sure when this is going to happen. i Think it's quite a good idea. I think it will benefit the kids when they go home especially those that eat junk.
• No we have not done this, we are not planning on doing this either.
• No we haven't had this but we have had a demonstration session for the kids. We had ready steady cook in assembly between my cook and the cook of another school. My cook won, not that it was a set up or anything. The children took ownership of it, it was a personal thing and of course there was a tasting session at the end.
• That has not happened, but we may incorporate this in the next health week. The benefits this session could bring is awareness to young parents. The amount of young parents I see in the supermarkets buying ready meals is ridiculous. A lot don't know how to cook from scratch, so they need to be shown. It has become a culture.

Articles in the local press on improved meals in local schools

• Hurlford have had a lot of publicity. We won an award as did the other schools for supporting the food for life scheme. That made the press. I think the press coverage has helped with uptake for kids and encouraging them to eat healthy.
• We have been in the press in terms of promoting the healthy foods we are serving. I think this is a good thing, it can only serve to increase the kids interest and parents interest in the school dinners.
• This has really helped our school. The number of parents that have commented on this is fantastic. We are now known as a local organic school. The impact we have had on parents is pretty good. Some are more interested then others, but actually a lot of the kids seem proud of the fact that we are a local organic school. They are proud that it is their school doing it.
• Yes, there was at the outset of hungry for success. Hopeful this encouraged awareness.
• Yes we have had this and this worked very well. They take pictures of the food and it looks great. This has been very successful.
• Yes we have been in the press a little, but not as much as Hurlford. All this publicity has helped raise awareness amongst parents and I'm sure it has had an effect on some parents to encourage their kids to try school meals.
• We have won awards and that has been highlighted. This helps benefit the kids and parents at home. A lot of parents have made comments to us about this and its good for parents to know that their kids are having a decent meal when they come to school.
• No we have not done this, we are not planning on doing this either.
• No not done by us, but I suppose it has had a knock on effect from other schools publicity. It helped us get the board members more interested.
• Yes there have been a good profile about the pilot scheme. The knock on effect is that we hoped more parents would become aware and encourage their children to eat more healthier at school.

Involvement of catering staff in a Menu Development Group

• I'm not involved in that and neither are my staff. I have no plans to get involved.
• I think that would be really worth while, but not just catering managers but all staff to talk about. It would definitely benefit because each school is different and each catering team have different ideas, so to bring those ideas together would be good.
• My catering staff are not in a development group because they are not involved in the cooking. They only do preparation. I do all the cooking. I help develop the menu with 3 other catering managers and the council with in the Ayrshire area. I think this has been very helpful in developing menus, however the final decision is left to executives and top management within the council, the problem is they are not hands on and I'm concerned that they are more concerned by how the menu looks rather then what the children will eat. But we are trying to address these problems now. The menu's are inspired by the hungry for success scheme.
• I believe that East Ayrshire had a number of catering staff that were involved in the development of the menu in the early days, I don't know whether that is still running but it is certainly a big help. It helps the staff in terms of adapting the menu to the kids taste and also adapting to the limitations of the kitchen.
• Yes we have a meeting between all catering managers across the 11 schools. We have helped develop a new hungry for success menu and we had a tasting day to sample all the food. That was a good day, and its good to be able to contribute to the menu ideas.
• Yes, we have been involved in something like this. I feel the staff should be asked more about developing menus, we know what our kids like and don't like.
• I think they need to involve more catering staff in the developing of menus. I don't think they are listening to the kids or taking into consideration what they think is healthy and developing a healthy menu of what they like. I think by doing this it would help increase numbers a lot. A lot of parents don't seem to realise the quality that the school meals are like now-a-days so we need to continue making them aware as well.
• No we have not done this, we are not planning on doing this either. I have to wait for my manager to tell me what we are going to be doing.
• I don't know much about this. I think this would help though because schools would be able to share ideas and discuss what works and what doesn't for whatever reasons. That would help develop the menus.
• I think our cook is involved in a group that puts forward recipes to the council and they approve these and other adaptations to the menu. Yes, that's a good thing, it takes away the sameness of the menu.

Q29. ( HT) Other than the activities I've just mentioned, what further efforts have been made over the last few months to integrate the issues of healthy diet, and improved school meals into the curriculum? What kinds of staff ( i.e. which roles) have been most involved in this?

• Yes, we have been having a breakfast club. Because most kids get this for free there has been a huge uptake for this and it has been a great success.
• We have just had a health week, so we made sure that everyone had their fibre day, a number of children had a chart that they were marking off each day. I would say we had about 75-80% success. But we don't know whether this continued at home as well. This idea was generated by our staff, however we have become more heath conscious as a school due to the food for life scheme and hungry for success.
• The breakfast club has been fantastic. It is run by East Ayrshire. It started in October and finishes at the end of March. Attendance has been very high, I know it has to stop soon but that is down to funding. But this has had a significant impact on children's concentration. Some children will come for the novelty of having breakfast in school and some will come for the after breakfast activities which are of a sporting nature so the children can have a healthy breakfast and do a bit of exercise.

Q30. ( HT, CM) Of all of the activities and initiatives that we've just discussed, which seem to have had the greatest impact? Why?

• I would have said the thing that has worked the best for our school is the fact that we have just kept telling the children how good vegetables and fruit are for you. I would say that has worked the best for us. Plus the headmaster keeps telling the kids how important it is, he is very good.
• It is difficult to get feedback from kids. I think by encouraging kids to taste the different things has been the best way, some of them have been really surprised. Strangely they seem to love curry.
• The food for life scheme and the fact we are using local and organic food has had the greatest impact on our school. Of the promotional activities I would say the press had the most impact on the scheme and the children and parents.
• I think the best activity would be one involving the parents. The school does have a part to play in healthy eating but so has parents at home. I think some parents provide more healthier meals then others. I would say the hungry for success programme has had the biggest impact on us as a school.
• For the children I think the best one was the tasting day. It got parents involved as well, and we have seen a number of children having more school dinners, which was the aim. I would say the Hungry for Success Scheme has had the greatest impact on us and the school, because we had to completely introduce a new menu.
• I would have said the introduction of the new school menu from the Hungry for Success scheme has had the biggest effect upon this school. It has completely changed the way we do things here, and it's definitely for the better.
• I would say the fact that we are serving local organic food has had a massive impact on the uptake of school dinners. Along with the advertising and publicity within the press. The menu is on the internet as well, so kids can check the night before with their parents and decide which meal to have. I would say the hungry for success scheme has had the biggest impact on us as a school because this has really been pushed.
• None of them because we haven't taken part in any of them. Overall I would say that food for life has had the biggest impact on our school. I would have said we are going to see more benefit over time.
• I would say the produce had a large effect on some of the children, especially the older children, they could really taste the difference. I don't know about the younger children but certainly the older children have said they can taste the difference. I would have said the tasting sessions has had the biggest effect on the school because they were for the pupils as well as the parents. The hungry for success scheme has ad the biggest effect on the school as this is the one we publish in our newsletters that go home to the parents.
• Changing the menu slightly to conform with what the children like but still keeping the menus healthy has had the biggest impact on uptake. Overall, the hungry for success has had a massive impact on the school but so has the other initiatives.

Q31a. How has the uptake of school meals changed over this school year? Has the introduction of the new local suppliers since the end of 2005 had any effect on uptake yet? [IF SO, What effect has it had?]

• I think just recently the uptake has increased a little bit. More kids are having school dinners then before, however, more of them seem to be having sandwiches rather then a hot dinner. We had about 110 children today have school dinners and we must have made at least 50 sandwiches. In total we have 140 kids in the school. Since the introduction of local suppliers i don't think this has made much of a difference.
• I wouldn't have said the uptake has been effected by the suppliers. However the meat is fantastic, you can definitely taste the difference, especially with the roast beef, the kids love it. The meat is really healthy now. Other then that they wouldn't know where it is coming from
• Yes uptake has increased. Kids are eating more healthily and the introduction of local food has impacted on parents as well as the kids.
• it doesn't fluctuate hugely, we only have 11 or 12 kids that have dinners and that is about one third of the school. I don't think the new suppliers have had an impact on the uptake but I have certainly noticed a difference in the taste.
• No not really. Our numbers have stayed the same really. The children that always had hot dogs have stopped coming, but we have replaced these with new children that are attending the school so it has balanced out really. Some of the kids that had the hot dogs we have managed to convert but some have opted to go for a packed lunch from home.
• Kids are definitely trying the healthier foods, but across the board uptake has only increased slightly. We were using a lot of the suppliers we have now before Christmas, so uptake hasn't really been affected .
• I would have said it has been steady. Sometimes when the summer comes you get a drop in the uptake, but that is quite normal. I have heard a lot of schools saying that they have had a drop off in the uptake since the new menus have been brought in. I think the parents knowing that the food is better and more healthier and that it has come form local suppliers has had a massive effect. I wouldn't have said that this has happened with the kids, but it has certainly had an effect on some of the parents in encouraging them to get their kids to try the healthy food.
• Not really. It hasn't had that much of an impact.
• The uptake is really good anyway.
• To begin with meal uptake went down and they have now started to come back up again. The uptake of our meals fluctuate depending on the time of month for parents on monthly salaries and the time of week for those on weekly wages or benefits. The introduction of new suppliers at that time had no effect on the up take of children. But now the menu has been changed a little there has been a big increase in uptake.

Q31b. ( HT, CM) What more do you think still needs to be done to increase the uptake of school meals, and especially the uptake of healthy meal choices available on the menu?

• I think we need to encourage parents to stop giving them so many sweeties and encourage them to realise the importance of healthy food, fruit and veg. When we were kids we ate our dinner and that was it, either that or we starved. We need to continue educating the parents. I believe this is best done by inviting them in more often to sample the food, and by getting more press coverage and educating parents that way. Maybe more sampling sessions for parents.
• I definitely think the meals need to be simplified more for the kids. Some of the fancy stuff you know just won't sell. I would like to use less rich ingredients, just make it simpler.
• I personally think that a lot of the problem is to do with staffing, my boss has mentioned this to me a number of times about other schools. A lot of staff at other schools have no enthusiasm for the project. They have been in the job 20-30 years, they are old school, their opinion is the kids don't like veg and that is it. They seem to think it is so hard to change kids minds, and its not, it's so easy. You just need enthusiastic staff that are willing to encourage kids to try different things. If we don't have the staff right on our side of the counter i don't think we will get a change with the kids attitudes. Generally kids won't choose to eat veg or food that's good for you they will choose the bad food because it tastes better. So we need to encourage them. I would say the staff need to be trained better, given ideas to encourage kids to try different things, and just become more enthused.
• It is very difficult. There is a cost implication, if we can continue promoting the school dinners and keep encouraging them then hopefully we will eventually get through to everyone.
• I think we need to carry on with what we are doing and bring it home to children just how important healthy eating is.
• We need to continue encouraging kids and the parents about healthy foods. We need to continue promoting this issues to parents and kids continually. As long as we keep doing this hopefully the message will be forced home eventually.
• I would have said to have put more food on that kids like. So not as many exotic foods.
• We need to involve the children and catering staff more. We could ask kids what their favourite meals are and provide them but make them really healthy.
• I would think doing consultations with parents who do not send their children for school dinners would be quite interesting. In this area it tends to be a purely convenience thing for them to make sandwiches for their kids.
• I think some people find the school meals a touch expensive. Now I'm not saying that they are expensive but what I am saying is that if you have three children, it is cheaper to make them sandwiches rather then giving them money for meals every day. A lot of parents at our school don't qualify for school dinners but a lot of them are just over the threshold. So it's difficult.

Q32. ( HT, CM) Finally, do you have any other comments to make on East Ayrshire Council's local foods for schools pilot scheme, the recent introduction of new local suppliers, and the Council's efforts to improve to improve the quality of food served in East Ayrshire schools? e.g. has the timing of school meals affected uptake of the scheme? Are swipe cards being used etc.?

• No, I'm really happy with the quality of food. What I would like to do is make my own menus but with healthier foods. I would like just a bit more freedom.
• No, I don't. I just think menus should be more aimed towards a kids pallet rather then an adults.
• I think it has been a fantastic opportunity. The kids are getting food they would be hard pushed to get from home. I think it is quite far thinking and far reaching of the council to try something like this. The local suppliers are delighted. I don't think they are making a huge amount of money from it, but i think they are so enthusiastic that the local schools wish to use local suppliers, a lot of people think that this is how it should be.
• Not at this point, my understanding is that it is working well in our school just now.
• I think we maybe need to go back to just hot dinners and take away the option of sandwiches. Maybe also reduce the choice of hot meals, still keep them all healthy but just reduce the amount of choice. I think a lot of children have a sandwich here and then go home and snack and don't have a meal on the night. The sandwiches are healthy but it would be better for them to have a portion of veg as well and a hot meal.
• I think the scheme is excellent, healthier food is very important and so is using local suppliers. We just need to continue going in this direction.
• I would like the menus sorted out so we have more plain foods as well as the fancy food. Because there is a lot of fancy food at the moment the kids are opting for sandwiches a lot. Even though they are healthy, everyday is no good either. So I would like the menus to be plainer.
• Not really. I do agree with it, but I'm not really in favour of organic fruit and veg because the cost doesn't justify the quality. However the cost of organic meat and flour and dry goods is very good. You can see and taste the difference in the quality.
• I think it has been very encouraging trying to get kids to eat more healthily. We are by no means there yet but it has highlighted the need for healthy food to parents, students, teachers and the rest of Ayrshire.
• I think East Ayrshire should be commended for taking this on and trying to make a difference.

(iv) - Survey of other Local Authorities

Q3. Please describe your organisation's ambition in regard to the procurement of food for schools. This could simply be providing best value for money or you may have a strategy/ ambition of procuring more fresh, more local, or more organic food. If you have such a strategy, please describe the drivers of this strategy or ambition, for instance financial pressure, compliance with government legislation etc.

• When procuring food products the Council priority is to secure value for money for quality produce and purchasing as much freh product as possible.
• Providing fresh, local produce - in line with best value.
• We try where possible to resource food that has been produced locally. This has been successful with Beef, lamb, pork and milk. Potatoes are probably 90% local, some veg is also resourced locally in season
• This Council operates a Best Value Policy, where possible fresh produce are used. Beef is procureed within Scotland.
• Drivers are: Health agenda, partnership with NHS Highland, Scot. Exec. H4S, ethos of service, links with Soil Association, sustainability, we use fresh local produce where possible, Fair Trade, and organic produce and ingredients.
• Nutritional standards (Hungry for Success). Value for money. Quality. Utilising Scottish medium enterprise companies. Cost. Consistency of product and delivery. Economy of scale for all catering sectors (school meals 70% of total food procured). European legislation. Food safety. Supplier evaluation
• The procurement of food for schools is mostly governed by the aspect of quality & price. However would like & welcome more local procurement but how do you accommodate EU directives & the like?
• In Midlothian it is the "providing best value for money and quality policy" although I do have scope to source for local foods , a trial of organic vegetables was introduced into two primary schools over a school term in 2004 the cost associated with this resulted in the trial ceasing
• Working on a 4 year contract with existing suppliers. Aim for best value for money and compliance with HFS guidelines

Q4. Please briefly outline the supply model you use in your organisation, such as 'One supplier ( e.g. a butcher) supplies all the schools in the authority', 'Local suppliers provide small groups or 'clusters' of schools'.

• All establishments are supplied by suppliers who have tendered through the Authorities Buying Consortium. The supply model used is for one supplier for each product range( e.g. milk, meat, bread) supplies all premises
• One supplier delivering to all schools where applicable.
• Mixed supply model depending on the products. Grocer - single supplier to the whole area. Frozen Food - single supplier to the whole area. Confectionary - single supplier to the whole area. Beverages - single supplier to the whole area. Butcher - contract put out in 4 areas - though one supplier won them all. Fresh Fruit and Veg - contract in 4 areas - one supplier has three areas. Dairy - contract in 5 areas - one supplier has 4 areas. Bakery - 17 areas of schools grouped round Seconday schools - split between 6 bakers - some areas unallocated due to lack of interest.
• One supplier supplies all schools per commodity.
• 8 key suppliers/distributions, under the Council's strategic sourcing - policy, and 2 further local suppliers limited to FFL project. Scolarest use their own supplies, approx. 4 through Compass group or local arrangements.
• 2 x butchers. 3 x bakers. 1 x milk/dairy supply. 1 x frozen food. 1 x grocers. 2 x fruit and veg. NB All contracts are based on different models i.e.: - Supply and delivery, Supply only, Delivery only
• Fife wide suppliers
• One supplier supplies all schools ie. one for frozen one for ambient etc,etc
• Suppliers have city-wide contracts eg one supplier of meat.

Q5. Please describe the main issues that you face in regard to your current school meal food supply. This could be quality of the fresh produce, cost of ingredients, reliability of suppliers etc.

• In the main there are no major issues with the current arrangementsfor food supplies, however there have been some issues on the consistancy of quality of frozen fish and the cost of fresh fish.
• Cost of quality ingredients/reliability of some supliers.
• 1 Getting suppliers that can deliver across Aberdeenshire in a restricted time window. 2 The lack of competition for certain contracts e.g. bakery, only two suppliers for Fruit and veg, two suppliers for fresh meat. 3 Getting small suppliers that will cover more than a restricted area. 4 Lack of/limited storage facilities for all items in schools esp.chilled and frozen foods. 5 Some local items such as strawberries are mainly in season during the school holidays. 6 . Fresh Fish is difficult to resource across the Council area, it is readily available in the coastal towns, most suppliers are small operations, with limited distribution. The price and availability is also subject to fluctuation
• Delivery issue due to rural locations of a number of schools. Our current suppliers are very reliable.
• In the main we are very pleased with local/organic supplies. Disappointing not having fresh bread/fish and milk deliveries over our Council area and the opportunity to supply and distrubute domestic size packaging for our smaller units re approx. 40% of business.
• Scale of operation and delivery within city environment. Sourcing sufficient quantities of fresh produce required. Cost. Nutritional values of processed food against Hungry for Success requirements
• Quality of fresh produce esp fruit & vegetables. Flexibility of contracts. Minimum drop off requirements
• My current suppliers are reliable both in cost and delivery of products, Fresh products as in fruit & vegetables, fish, meat and dairy products are good in quality and cost
• Lack of veg and fruit suppliers willing to tender for contract. Producers not reducing fat, salt and sugar content fast enough.

Q6 - If your organisation followed the same model as East Ayrshire Council's pilot, which in simple terms means local suppliers supplying local schools with fresh unprocessed ingredients, then what would you see as the main barriers to implementation in your area?(OTHER COMMENTS)

• We already have local suppliers for fruit and vegetables, butchermeat, beverages, crisps and confectionery.
• The size of Aberdeenshire, 2437 sq miles v. East Ayrshires 490 sq. miles, and the considerable lower density of population of 96/sq.mile as opposed to 245/sq. mile in East Ayrshire means that distribution is a problem. With half the population of Aberdeenshire, East Ayrshire has half the secondary schools, but only about a third of Primary schools. So Aberdeenshire is looking for suppliers to deliver over 5 times the area, to about three and a half time the schools but with only about twice as many customers. The requirement for small suppliers to also invest in expensive refrigerated delivery for what may be a small turnover in area, adds a considerable amount to the cost of each delivery. This means that Aberdeenshire needs to give suppliers certain economies of scale to make contracts viable.
• Suppliers/producers sustaining supply all year round and distribution throughout the Highland area with uniformity of quality guaranteed. Challenges between Public proc. rules and buying local and sustainability initiatives.
• Current suppliers and existing contracts
• A whole school approach is required
• Existing way in which Council awards contracts.

Q7. How applicable do you think East Ayrshire Council's pilot scheme is to your organisation and what would you say are the key strengths and weaknesses of this approach?

• We believe it would be applicable, but would require start-up information to run a pilot. Key strengths are the nutritional benefitsof using organic produce, boosting the local economy. Key weakness could be the sourcing of local product and suppliers to meet the volumes required.
• The scheme would require a considerable amount of administration with multiple suppliers. There can be problems for producers to produce fresh food to fit in with the pattern of the school year. The strengths are that it does provide an input into the local economy. Food should be freshly harvested in season. The supplier has a local reputation to maintain. The weaknesses are that the Council is committed to buy products that may be of low quality. The supply chain is subject more than usual to the vagaries of the weather. There may also be little competition for supply contracts so prices could go up.
• We too have this approach specifically in 2 pilot schools, and the introduction of key objectives of FFL, we have a desire to extend however the financial environment may restrict this happening.
• Given urban setting, not very applicable
• Size & variety of Fife leads to supply & distribution difficulties. Varying quality of produce with multiple suppliers. Year round availability. Quality & standard of product.
• This is a good idea to introduce this type of foods into the school dining hall but it should also be part of the ciriculum with classroom teachers bying into this to make it work not only in the consumption of the foods but also in the growing of these products
• Require more information on pilot scheme to judge applicability to ACC.

Q8. Which aspects of East Ayrshire Council's pilot scheme implementation would you like to know more about, so that you can learn from the experience that they have gathered? (OTHER COMMENTS)

• If East Ayrshire uses a central menu planning system, are the suppliers are able to supply across the area to service this. If not, how do they cope with central menu planning and a variable supply base? How does East Ayrshire go about ensuring that food is organic, do they do this themselves or use external accreditation bodies? Do they audit suppliers to ensure that food is produced locally and what is the defnition of "local" in this excercise? Have they had to increase refrigerated storage space significantly? Is food delivered daily? and how many schools are involved? How do they cope with drops in quality of locally supplied food? How do they cope with shortages in supply of locally supplied food? Is each supplier tendering individually or do they group together? Is it more important to be organic, where food may come from far away or local when it may not be organic?
• Financial impact of organic produce.
• Benchmarking information in relation to project. Is organic more nutritional than non-organic?

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