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INTRODUCTION

Before deciding on the subject matter for the second meeting of the Lifelong Learning Forum we consulted with Forum members, as well as taking into account feedback from participants in the inaugural meeting of the Forum in 2003.

An area that consistently came to the fore during our discussions was workforce development and the issues relating to it. We developed this theme at the 2004 Forum, inviting Professor Ewart Keep as a guest speaker to share his views, present his findings and lead the sessions.

This report aims to capture the spirit of the ensuing discussions. It does not set out to be a transcript of the event, but a record that members can refer to while reflecting on the challenges and ideas generated at the event.

As part of the ongoing evaluation of the Lifelong Learning Forum, the Scottish Council Foundation has interviewed a cross section of Forum members, and a report of their findings will be issued in the coming months. An evaluation survey will be sent to all participants in the 2004 Forum following this report.

If you wish any further information about any of the issues contained in the report you can contact Julie Martin by email at Julie.Martin@scotland.gsi.gov.uk.

WELCOME

"Our vision for the Forum is to help develop lifelong learning in Scotland…..I look forward to some challenging and constructive dialogue today"

Welcoming everyone to the 2004 event Mark Batho, Head of Lifelong Learning Group talked about the theme for the day - namely workforce development and the challenges that would bring.

He reminded everyone of the Forum's remit and vision to:

• Review progress of the lifelong learning strategy;
• Advise on current and merging issues in lifelong learning;
• Facilitate partnership working across sectors; and
• Act as a sounding board for new policy initiatives.

Mark believed this event presented an excellent opportunity for members to provide early input at a strategic level on an issue that affected Scottish people, and looked forward to some challenging and constructive dialogue.

He then introduced and welcomed Allan Wilson, Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning.

Keynote Speech

Allan Wilson, Deputy Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning

"Skills, knowledge, attitudes and behaviours … will enable Scots to play a full role in their work, home and civic life"

The Minister opened his speech by describing the Science Centre as a place of learning, discovery and fun, words he hoped would sum up the activities of the day. He spoke about the theme of the Forum, workforce development, and saw the Forum as an excellent opportunity to consider such problems with the benefit of a diverse range of insights, experiences and perspectives.

He emphasised the link between the Forum and the lifelong learning strategy. The Forum was set up to review progress on commitments in the strategy, to contribute to policy development in areas requiring further thought and action and to engage in blue-sky thinking about lifelong learning. The 2005 Forum will coincide with the mid life point of the strategy, and the Minister emphasised how it will play an important part in thinking about where we go next.

One year on

This Minister referred to the theme of the 2003 Forum, 'People, Partnerships and Possibities', which highlighted the importance of partnership working and was glad that some of the members have worked closely with the Executive to create opportunities arising from that event. He outlined some examples of action that had taken place following the inaugural Forum in December 2003.

Referring to David Perkins, the Minister was heartened to see that the vision of our own lifelong learning strategy was reflected in much of what David Perkins said. Where he talks about the skills, dispositions and understanding involved in handling knowledge well, we describe the skills, knowledge, attitudes and behaviours that will enable Scots to play a full role in their work, home and civic lives. Skills and learning is an area that is currently being placed highly on the agenda in both a Framework for Economic Development in Scotland and A Smart, Successful Scotland.

Meeting the Need

The Minister referred to examples of success, such as more young people going into further and higher education and of reaching the target of 30,000 Modern Apprenticeships two years earlier than planned. He recognised that there are those in society who don't take advantage of these opportunities, and that it is important to maintain and improve programmes to meet changing needs of young people and businesses.

Part of the challenge he identified was that although employers in Scotland annually spend around £1.5bn on education, training and learning many more need convincing of the value of training and qualifications. According to surveys carried out by Futureskills Scotland, the Federation of Small Business and others, where there are skills shortages they tend to be in the lower skilled sectors. The Minister stressed the role of workforce development as a means of increasing productivity and innovation with wider contribution to the economy.

The Minister closed by urging everyone to participate in open, honest and constructive debate, not as representatives of their sector or organisation, but by offering their personal and professional knowledge and expertise. He stressed the output from the Forum would be useful to government in developing Scotland as an innovative, confident, learning nation.

Presentation by Professor Ewart Keep

Mark Batho set the scene for Professor Ewart Keep's presentation on the challenges for lifelong learning policy as described by his thought-provoking paper ' The 'Bottom Half' and the Dangers of Labour Market Polarisation'. Mark emphasised this is an area in which the Executive's Lifelong Learning Group has a very keen interest.

Professor Keep prefaced his presentation by suggesting that that Scotland's lifelong learning strategy benefited from its broad-based, ambitious approach. He believed that the labour market issues outlined in his paper would not go away, and that there were no simple answers. However, he hoped to offer pointers that members could pursue. Member were encouraged to read a book by Paul Thompson of Strathclyde University entitled ' Skating on Thin Ice' exploring the myths of the knowledge economy. He argued that lifelong learning was not a substitute for a strong industrial policy and welfare state, and that the value of skills in terms of economic success and social justice were in his opinion over estimated.

From previous research, he concluded that most firms in the UK compete in local markets where many consumers have limited purchasing power and operate on the basis of low cost competitive strategies. The result is low wages and low skills levels with a widening gap between leading edge and trailing edge practice in UK workplaces. Professor Keep suggested that cost based competitive strategies appear to be structural and deeply embedded in the economy with many firms operating in this way seeing no need or possibility to change as current strategies are delivering reasonable profits and success.

Professor Keep maintained there is a growing polarisation in the labour market with a rise in the number of jobs at the bottom deciles of job quality offering lower pay, career prospects and learning opportunities, with in-work benefits subsidising the least efficient employers. He suggested members also consider the impact on the labour market of an increasing numbers of university graduates. For example, more employers explicitly want people with degrees thus pushing non-graduates down the job ladder.

In his view the product market strategies and quality of available jobs pose challenges for government policy and skills development and suggested that one-size fits all interventions will produce sub optimal results. An alternative proposition would be to take a long-term approach by tailoring and targeting need to create a high wage, high skill economy for the majority of the workforce. This would require policy makers and stakeholders asking 'hard questions' about where to target resources to achieve the greatest impact and would only be successful with buy in from a wide range of actors. In his view the scale of change envisaged to adjust product market strategies and job quality might take 10-15 years to achieve.

Members were then offered the opportunity to ask questions.

One member raised the issue of growth in low paid, low skill jobs that still left increasing numbers of people unable to fill these types of jobs.

Professor Keep responded by suggesting that as the economy shifts the most able unemployed are filtered back into jobs, while those left suffered extensive issues that needed to be addressed. He expressed concern over the level of wages paid in some jobs that are described as not sufficient to live on resulting in subsidies such as tax credits to 'top up' wages to acceptable levels.

Another member suggested the need to better understand the 'bottom half' as some employees at craft level, for example, plumbers are earning as much if not more than graduates.

Professor Keep replied that in England it has become increasingly difficult to sustain advanced apprenticeships for some occupations and there was a push to encourage those who had completed level three qualifications to go on to higher education. This raised the issue of the bottom 25%, when evidence suggests that those attaining a level 2 qualification were more likely to gain employment but not to earn any more money, showing no economic rate of return. He further suggested the expansion of higher education for some people may not be the best route to better paid employment.

Roundtable discussions

In small groups members considered the following two questions:

Members presented the main comments and suggestions from their discussions and these have been clustered into themes for ease of presentation. A mind map of this session is included at Annex C.

Scottish Policy

Existing and future Scottish policy received attention from some participants who felt policy and strategy should address demographic changes, particularly the future of work for the growing number of older people and the potential impact on the economy. Policy could be more cohesive incorporating individual learning, learning in schools and workforce development with the role of public funding for the bottom half for non-employment related learning made more explicit. However, this would need to be reconciled with possible tensions between the ideal of a high skill, high wage economy and the suggestion that businesses operated on the basis of low skills and low wages and very few had plans to change. There should be greater clarity over the range and scope of policy levers in Scotland to produce integrated policies covering lifelong learning and the economy. However, some participants were unsure about how this could be achieved when certain key areas, such as social security, sits with Westminster. One member did believe that the best approach was to " leave things alone for the next 5-10 years rather than frequently changing policy".

The Labour Market and Employability

The issue of fit between individual skills and the skills needed for the job was discussed. As one participant commented ' even those with a PhD need to have a driving licence to drive a car'. Participants commented on the changing labour market, with the decline in some areas and the rise in personal service jobs, and the growth in short term contracts.

Differences between salaries of men and women received attention, with growth industries mainly dominated by women leading to lower levels of pay. Job quality was thought to be important especially if as suggested qualifications don't lead to higher earnings. One group suggested we don't have the same view or place the same value on lower paid jobs as other countries. For example, in Europe hotel jobs are more highly valued than in the UK, and there is a need to raise the value of lower level jobs .

Some members thought there was a need to better understand what makes a good job as people in low skill jobs may have fairly high levels of job satisfaction. They may also experience better quality of life outcomes not delivered through work but through other aspects of their lives. We also need greater understanding of flows in and out of work. Is this because of a lack of responsibility for learning in the workplace or are there other reasons? Both these areas require further research to help us enhance jobs to improve productivity. Or as one member commented, 'Perhaps we need to raise levels of ambition and motivation'.

With 90% of businesses employing less than 50 people, Business Learning Accounts were thought to be a good start to help smaller businesses do more to in the way of learning and development and encourage on the job training, which was thought by some participants to be undervalued but essential. There was also a feeling among some members that employers feel burdened by legislation and compliance that they are only undertaking the training that they have to do by law for example health and safety and equal opportunities.

One group felt that the service sector needs to change more and this was beginning to happen. Members generally felt that employers need to be part of the process to enhance job quality and encourage workplace learning, but that we need more creative and innovative ways to change their attitudes. Employees were also thought to have a part to play as they shouldn't always rely on their employer but take control of their own future and create their own opportunities. One member believed that many employers do value their staff, and this point was missing from the presentation. Further research was needed to determine the extent to which firms were caught in a low price, low wage culture.

The care sector received particular attention as almost half of those employed in social care are working in voluntary organisations. There was a feeling in one of the groups that in the future there will not be enough people even if Scotland was able to attract migrant workers to provide the range of services necessary. One suggestion was that everyone could contribute some time during their lifetime to these types of jobs as part of a social contract.

The public sector was mentioned by most of the groups. As large employers they could lead by example in providing 'good jobs' and training opportunities. There was a widely held view that public sector levers were easier to pull, and that joined up thinking and action could raise the bar in the public sector with spin offs into the private sector.

One group asked, 'Which part of the labour market should we address - those 'born to fail' or 'born to fail families', while another suggested " The Executive is obsessed with employability - it's not all about the economy".

Education and Learning

Participants expressed different views about Scotland's schools. For example, schools were thought to want a more flexible curriculum. Entrepreneurial skills should be an option as not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. The current system was thought to be geared towards achieving qualifications, not learning. The drive towards an academic curriculum meant that there was a lack of focus on the 'whole child'.

One group thought that funding mechanisms for the college sector in Scotland was a very positive starting point. The same group pointed out that a foundation degree and an HNC or HND are considerably different, and there was never a 50% target for university attendance in Scotland.

Moving on to learning, one group suggested that thinking about learning in two ways can help formulate responses. These were learning for fun and learning for purpose. The group recommended building on the idea of a universal entitlement to learning. This could offer a way of 'inverting the pyramid' by investing less in those who will succeed and spending more on the less able.

They further suggested investment should focus on individuals and not on institutions. Lifelong learning was thought to be about skills and learning, we sometimes view learning as consumption and not investment, and that it is unhelpful to financially discriminate 'leisure and pleasure' learning. Lifelong learning was believed to be about increasing life choices, confidence and self-esteem, and more needed to happen to recognise and accredit prior experiential learning. It was important for the learning sector to respond to the needs of those in low skilled jobs. There was thought to be a need to continue to develop people, but to be cautious about what can and cannot be achieved through learning alone. Giving people routes and pathways to allow them to move on was important, but only if they wanted to participate, as personal choice and responsibility were believed to be important. Life skills were felt to be integral to lifelong learning, particularly for those in the bottom 25 or 50%, although one participant suggested " Is lifelong learning just palliative care for the bottom 50%"

Every group commented on the value of 'soft skills'. For example,

• too many school leavers don't have soft skills
• soft skills must be reinforced with teamwork and leadership skills to make a difference
• soft skills can be learned outside work through life experiences
• soft skills training is hard to deliver and hard for the learner to understand
• research evidence indicates that employers do value 'softer skills'
• the distinction between technical and soft skills is unhelpful

One group asked, " Can soft skills be taught"?

Some participants raised the importance of building social capital within communities by suggesting that new initiatives could focus on communities emphasising the role of parents and peers in providing support and motivation.

Value and Measurement

Achieving clarity in what is being measured was important as was setting realistic timescales to see a return on the investment in learning. For example one group suggested in Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework ( SCQF) terms there is a four-year delay before a return is obvious. Some believed it was necessary to find a way of measuring what impact increased personal development and healthier employees means to the economy. Others suggested there is no definitive guide for best value. Some members felt there was an intrinsic value in education and training, which they felt was not explicit in Professor Keep's presentation.

Perceptions of parents were also believed to be important. For example parents with no qualifications often wanted their children to go to university. There was a widely held view that people place different values on learning and qualifications depending on their age and circumstances. A role for the SCQF could be to help promote the value of different types of qualifications.

One proposition was to monitor and evaluate the potential of individual learning accounts ( ILAs), although another group suggested the next version of ILAs could be more creative and build in additional support where it is needed.

Final Observations

The structure of further and higher education, associated qualifications and the existing student funding system makes it difficult for many potential entrants to take up opportunities for the first time. A funding for learners review should address some of these issues.

98% of companies in Scotland are small businesses employing less than 50 people. We need to recognise this when setting out actions to achieve the strategy " Scotland is a small business country and there is a need to keep it simple".

The bursary policy has no age restriction and easily fits different situations and ages. Someone suggested we need to get more radical in our thinking; learning policies require to be linked to life outside work as well. Night school and community learning routes take account of personal circumstances and the need for more flexible routes into learning.

Response from Professor Keep

Professor Keep closed the discussion by stressing the value of diversity within the groups in terms of their responses. He suggested there was a need to review returns on investment from learning and to be clear about what was being measured. He suggested the rates of return on lower level training were not that good. He referred members to the DfES website ( www.dfes.gov.uk) which explores the wider benefits of learning.

Professor Keep agreed that we are living in a small employer economy, but that our models of learning are based on a manufacturing economy and larger employers, and we need to look for more relevant models.

At present funds are targeted at those most well off and a re-distribution best suited to the type of society we want to create would offer a way to shift resource allocations. This, however, will take a long time to achieve.

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