Online Interview on Ageing
Scotsman Executive Editor Bill Jamieson interviewed Minister for Communities Rhona Brankin on the issue of Scotland's ageing population on Thursday, February 22, 2007.
Questions were submitted by the public on a range of issues to do with ageing and Mr Jamieson selected as many of these as possible and put them to the Minister. A full transcript of the interview is below.
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Watch the full interview
Audio version (MP3)
Bill Jamieson (BJ): Good Morning and welcome to the first ever Executive one-to-one online studio interview with a Government Minister. I'm Bill Jamieson, Executive Editor of the Scotsman and joining me this morning is Scotland's Minister for Communities Rhona Brankin. Good morning Rhona. Today we will be looking at the issue of Scotland's ageing population. In line with other European countries Scotland's population is getting older. Within 10 years half of Scotland population will be over 50. Older people make huge contributions to our economy and society and the Executive will shortly set out its vision of how we will need to adapt over the coming decades to harness the contribution and experience of older people and ensure services meet their needs. Thank you for all of your questions that you have sent in over this issue. I will try and put as many of these to the Communities Minister as possible over the next 15 minutes or so. Minister let me start with a very broad question on the Executive's ageing strategy. Can you just outline the main points of this strategy are, what do the current projections show and what are the Executives chief concerns?
Rhona Brankin (RB): Well you've pointed out some of the demographic changes that are taking place in Scotland just now. By 2031 over a quarter of the population in Scotland is going to be over 65 and that will have an impact on Scotland because obviously we are going to have less younger people, younger people who are working and paying taxes and taxes are what pays for services, so there are considerations there and people in the past have seen it as being a problem with larger numbers of older people but what we need to do is to think about being aware of what is happening and what are the implications are for Scotland. What are the implications in terms of the Scottish Economy, in terms of numbers of people working, what are the implications in terms of how we need to redesign the way we think in Scotland about services for example and about employment. There are a whole lot of things we need to think about and our view is that we don't have to think of ageing and an increase in older people as being a problem, there are many benefits and opportunities from this demographic change but we do need to think about how we maximise those benefits and opportunities and prepare for that future with an increasing number of people being older.
BJ: One or two people have written in to question why we need an ageing strategy at all. Is an ageing strategy necessary at all when you consider there is no strategy for 30 something's or for middle aged people. Is it then not patronising to think of the over 50s as needing an ageing strategy?
RB: That's actually a very good question but the strategy that we have been working on is a strategy for everybody, it is a strategy for Scotland with an ageing population and it affect all of us. It affects a baby that is being born today, just the same as it will impact on people like yourself and myself who are over 50, so it's a strategy for everybody because of the way our society is changing and the way our patterns of ageing are changing. This has to be something that affects everybody. To give you one example - if people are living longer and they are healthy than they were in the past, but given that we are going to have more people over 65 we need to ensure that people are continuing to become healthier in Scotland and that goes right back to the way people are fed and the diet and exercise they have, right from their earliest years.
BJ: There is a temptation I think within Government to think about ageing strategies as being a separate and particular unit, yet many of the concerns raised by older people relate to responsibilities under taken elsewhere within the Executive or indeed by local authorities. I'm thinking of issues particularly to do with how older people feel insecure at night or in the streets, it's a big issue that comes up with lots of conflicts. Should the Executive not be more proactive in raising these concerns with relevant authorities across the board in Scotland.
RB: Well one of the main aspects of the ageing strategy is that it does affect Government as you say right across the board. And this strategy has been prepared right across with all the different Ministers in the Scottish Executive taking part and putting in their input. Of course it has to be carried out by everybody in Government but also in local Governments, in councils in health boards in businesses. We all of us as individuals have a role to play so right across Government but also other people have a role to play and you mention specifically some of the concerns that are very often expressed about people feeling insecure in their community and we very much recognise that and the work we have done in developing community safety initiatives and in anti social behaviour I think is very important in terms of making people feel secure. I know in my own constituency of Midlothian for example we have pilot project of Community Wardens and they are out in the street, they get to know people and people can see them there and it helps to generate a feeling of being secure in ones own neighbourhood. It's a big issue for us.
BJ: What is the Executives policy on staff retirement? The reason I ask is that many people might know regard the retirement at 60 rule as itself being ageist because if you look at the proportion of people now working over retirement age it is the fastest growing sector of the working population. Many are happy to retire at 60 but some may wish to work on and are quite fit and able to do so, should the Executive not set an example and encourage flexibility on retirement issues?
RB: Well from last year in 2006 the Executive introduced a rule whereby people can stay on, more people can choose to stay on past 60 and to be able to retire when they want and I think that is absolutely the right thing to do. As you say, many people want to go when they get to pension age but quite a lot of people, in fact increasing numbers of people want to stay on but they maybe don't want to stay on full time in some areas, maybe they really would like to go into part time opportunities, other older people want to take up volunteering opportunities, so I think the key for us is flexibility. Where people want the opportunity to stay on and work we would like to see that happening, we would like to see more flexibility in the workplace but basically more opportunities for older people, more choice.
BJ: There is quite a concern here about re-training people maybe coming up to their late 40's and into their 50's, and there is a view that actually it's so expensive to re-train people that it might actually be better if older people were actually sort of pensioned off and left to retire or given some money to get out of the Labour Force and clear the way for younger people. Do you agree with this?
RB: No, I don't agree with that I think we have a tremendous resource in older people and if you look at some of the policies of some companies I mean B&Q is often quoted, the benefits of employing older people are there and many companies are recognising that. The experience that comes with age and the stability often of employing older people in society I think that it has huge benefits. But also older people learning, we want to create more opportunities for older people to learn and I think that IT gives us or helps us to support that. But also for example I saw in Angus College the other day older people working on their European Driving License developing computer skills and there should be lots of opportunities for older people to learn and what we need to look at is what are the barriers stopping people from re-learning and learning new skills because we want to break down those barriers.
BJ: One area where the contribution of older people is most marked and most evident is what we might call civic or voluntary Scotland. Volunteering can bring great benefits to older people such as a feel good factor, sense of confidence and contact with others. Will the Executive fund a national initiative to develop older people volunteering including intergenerational work?
RB: Well I am not able to give you final details of the strategy that is going to be launched at the beginning of March but let me just say for me volunteering has got huge potential and it is happening Bill, it's happening out there. In the last few weeks I have met lots and lots of older people who are volunteering. In Edinburgh I met older peoples who are volunteering in a care home working with a wonderful 93 year old woman who was using email and indeed through Webcam was chatting to her daughter in Canada. And she was supported to do this by older volunteers. And again in my constituency there are older volunteers who run what's called a food chain where they actually do shopping for housebound older people themselves. There's a huge opportunity and intergenerational volunteering is happening as well. I met an older man who had retired was doing woodwork classes in a primary school. So it's happening and we think talking to older people that many other older people would benefit and welcome opportunities to volunteer. We need to make that easy and we need to provide those opportunities.
BJ: We have a growing number of carers who are themselves elderly and who care for sons and daughters who have special needs. How can we help to address the gaps in services so that the elderly carers can have extra support?
RB: Well there's a few things that the Executive have done already and indeed its an area that we much recognise. There are many thousands of people caring either for older relatives or indeed youngsters or older people with special needs. We have put in place through our legislation a right for people who have substantial care responsibilities to have an assessment themselves as a carer to see what sort of support they need, and in fact carers can apply for a carers allowance. But also we need to be able to look at respite opportunities to be able to support the people that choose to care or in situations where people are caring but are finding it very difficult, how they can be helped and supported to care. So it's a big big issue for us.
BJ: One rather topical issue that someone has raised in the questions is the issue of how we can help health professionals to stop prescribing too many drugs to the elderly?
RB: Again that's a good question and what we want to be able to do through out health policies is to insure that older people are as well and as independent as possible and of course we want to insure that older people have an opportunity for as long as they want and are able to live in there own homes so we need to do a variety of things for example we need to do work on falls prevention. We're doing work on rolling out tele care so people in their own homes can have technology that can detect when somebody falls and doesn't get up within their own homes. We do have very sophisticated ways of doing this but also we need to insure that older people are supported to be active. We have healthy walks going on in different parts of the countryside, we have walking clubs. Again I have met older people in Drumchapel in Glasgow for example who in the local Woodland have a regular walking group going out. We need to ensure that older people have access to high quality diets and that in a sense goes back to kind of earlier on when eating patterns are set because we need to insure that we do something about conditions such as diabetes and that does mean changing eating habits earlier on. But on the subject of medicines we need to ensure that where older people are on medication that that is reviewed regularly. Older people can be on a range of medication and so it needs to be reviewed regularly but also what wer weant to be able to do is keep people healthier and reduce the need and reliance of medication but also keep people locally in their home wherever possible and also look after them in the community. We don't want people going into hospital we believe they should be cared for within their community.
BJ: That leads very neatly on to the final question which is that many of the problems that occur among older people are ones that are really best addressed at an earlier age. Healthy lifestyle choices and good health for example, which we've touched on or taking steps to save for retirement. Financial worries are really uppermost concerns of older people. Now what is it that the Executive can do in these areas? Now I'm thinking of a greater emphasis on financial education in schools for example, so that people get into saving process and learn to prepare very early for retirement.
RB: Yes absolutely they do and we all need to do that. I absolutely agree I mean there is financial education going on in schools. I would be keen to expand that and I also think it is important that companies take responsibility in there for example when people get to the kind of age that you and I are, in our 50s and people lives to tend to change and people often take stock at that stage so I think there is a responsibility among employers to think about how they can support there employees to prepare for being older. But absolutely an important role for schools and obviously an important role in terms of being able to ensure that people have access to find out what kind of entitlements they have and in some cases benefit entitlements. But the pensions Bill that is going through Westminster will ensure that people have a range of options open to them and the emphasis is on thinking about that and making provisions when people are young, and it's a difficult thing to think about when you are young. I wish I had thought about it more.
BJ: Absolutely. Minister, thank you very much indeed.
I hope we have managed to cover most of the issues that you have raised and I look forward to seeing the final strategy document when it is published in the coming weeks. Thank you for watching.
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